To build or not to build

[daffyduck]

Hey there guys and girls.

I have owned and RRC in the past but had to sell for marriage and new house. Now that is all over (not the marriage, just the expense!) I am in a position where I can start to look at owning a Landy once again. I have always wanted to own a 90 and that is the route I am going to take. So to my question!

What would people have to say on the pros and cons of a rebuild project? To set the scene, I consider myself to be a slightly above average amateur mechanic and nothing more. I did a lot of little bits of work on the RRC and other cars I have owned. My new father in law is a professional mechanic, has his own garage, so I have access to tools and some expert knowledge, although he is a busy man!

I would look to by an old 90 in need of some TLC. I then intend to replace the chassis with galvanised. Source a 200 tdi engine (defender as I don’t weld and know that modifications are needed on the disco variant). I would also like to upgrade the rear axle to disc brakes for ease of maintenance, and because I will be using it for some moderate off roading.

Do you think that I am living in cloud cuckoo land, and that this would be more than an amateur could do? Or is this a realistic objective? I want to learn more about landy and how they work and are very keen to do this. I also realise that it may not be the most cost effective may of doing it, but I am fully intending to keep it for a long time.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I would really appreciate people’s opinions.

Jason

[Paddy_SP]

I'm doing a very similar job myself - I bought an MOT-failure 110 off a mate, and have since taken delivery of a new galvanised chassis for it. I will be using stainless fasteners, etc. throughout, as I only want to build it once! I would say that you should be able to do such a project without too much trouble - you will, however, need to budget for far more costs than you ever thought possible (ask me how I know...).

[T1G UP]

I recently bought a b reg 90 thats had a galvy chassis fitted and a defender 200 tdi motor fitted.MUCH cheaper way of doing things and i can spend my money on the fun bits like suspension etc.

[LandyManLuke]

Jason, go for it, there's very little you can't teach yourself.

[Mo Murphy]

Jason,

it's great fun to do but you WILL end up spending far more money that would buy you a much nicer much newer model. That said, if it's what you want to do then do it

HTH

Mo

[FridgeFreezer]

If you're going to buy a new chassis, engine and axle why bother buying a rusty 90 in the first place? Just buy a rusty vehicle (Disco/RR) as the engine & drivetrain donor, build it onto a 90 chassis and buy some bodywork at Sodbury. Far cheaper and you're not scrapping most of a 90 that way. After all, in taking it apart you're going to find so much seized / non-reusable stuff that not much will make it's way into the rebuilt vehicle beyond the main panels, and even those may not be up to snuff by the time you've persuaded them off.

[ThreeSheds]

If you're going to buy a new chassis, engine and axle why bother buying a rusty 90 in the first place? Just buy a rusty vehicle (Disco/RR) as the engine & drivetrain donor, build it onto a 90 chassis and buy some bodywork at Sodbury. Far cheaper and you're not scrapping most of a 90 that way. After all, in taking it apart you're going to find so much seized / non-reusable stuff that not much will make it's way into the rebuilt vehicle beyond the main panels, and even those may not be up to snuff by the time you've persuaded them off.

I'd go for this too. You can see MoT failed RRC's with good mechanicals far cheaper than 90s - and said mechanicals are less likely to have seen a hard life.

If you do it then it will suck in all your spare cash and time but be the best fun you can have with your clothes on You will buy tools and equipment (oooh just that phrase gets me all excited:D ), and will learn technologies and techniques along the way that will make you grin for days and bubble with frustration that none of your friends or family appreciate what you have just achieved.

It's great fun.

In my case (I am not 'normal' BTW) I have actually lost sight of ever getting my RRC on the road, but am enjoying the process - the pottering if you will, so much that I don't mind if it is never finished. And like you said - I will be keeping it for a long time - well, at least until either the grim reaper or the bailiffs come to call

Oh, and when you need advice - just come to this forum - from my experience since joining I really can't imagine a more helpful or knowledgeable bunch anywhere

So to summarise this ramble - GO FOR IT :D

TwoSheds

[Coastcard]

Agree with much of the above.

1) It will take a lot of time and money. So be realistic and check with your current wife that she is happy with this and is not expecting you to help with kids or decorate the new house, or she could be your first wife .

2) Try to get a large undercover (preferably lockable) workspace. There is nothing more frustrating than having a deadline to get something back together or done because you know it is about to p**s down or it is the end of the weekend and you need to go back to work.

3) As already said, probably more cost effective to buy a well checked out abandoned project where someone has spent the big bucks and lost interest. There was an 'all new bits' 90 project on ebay recently where the guy wanted £4000 and his best offer was about £2500 IIRC.

With these things, the heart rules the head. There is no financial gain in rebuilding one but you have a huge sense of satisfaction when it is completed and learn a lot in the process. I would not start another one without the wokspace (as in 2 above), it just means the pressure is off and you can come and go as you please. Also, there will be weeks when you don't want to see another Land Rover in your life

Keep us posted on your plans.

[sean f]

I pretty much agree with most of the above but...

I have built up 3 90,s now pretty much as you descipe, the first I still own the othere just kind of happened and have been sold on.

One advantage of building it up your self is you will quite literally know the vehicle inside out and know it was done properly.

On the comments about using a disco or a RR as a donar bear in mind the gearbox is not interchangable as the gearstick will be in the wrong place, the modifications to use a disco engine have been well covered in the past and isn't that hard. You will also need an awful lot of fittings etc and they easiest way to get them is all in one go on a donar 90.

The BIGGEST problem with this approach and not having a rusty 90 to start with is that the final vehicle will have no identity so will need a full SVA and you do not want to go there if you can avoid it. Provided you have a 90 to start with a NEW for old swap for the chassis is allowed legally all you will be doing is swapping the engine and provided the V5 is updated all is legal. Secondhand chassis cause a real problem as which vehicle have you got at the end?, frankly with the cost of a new chassis and the work involved best to go that way as you have suggested

[FridgeFreezer]

On the comments about using a disco or a RR as a donar bear in mind the gearbox is not interchangable as the gearstick will be in the wrong place, the modifications to use a disco engine have been well covered in the past and isn't that hard. You will also need an awful lot of fittings etc and they easiest way to get them is all in one go on a donar 90.

True, but a 90 will fetch double what a rusty RR or Disco will - I'd check Corrode Finger's thread on building a hybrid from his old RR, it was done with minimum mucking about on a tight budget and he's kept the RR identity and almost all the parts. Just don't paint it the same colour PLEASE!

Also, for far less than a 90 he's got a defender-alike with a 3.9 V8, auto box, discs all round, and room to swing a cat in the back.

[gruntus]

Hi Jason,

I think your intended use or motivation is the biggest deciding factor. From the start I wanted a 10 year vehicle that I wouldn't need to weld at each MOT!!

I am in this process at the moment, I bought a 90 for a £1000 that was pretty straight and a 2.5TD.

To start with I was going to rebuild the 2.5TD but I decided on a 200TDi for it as you tend to lean down the route of doing it right if you are going to go to all that trouble. (200TDi Defender lump £600).

Next I had to strip the vehicle and store which was fine keeping at the side of the house but have spent most of the summer building a shed 1.8m x 2m for keeping the finished items in (about £1200).

I have bought a replacement Bulkhead for about £300. again in for a penny in for a pounds

Next carved up the old knackered chassis and disposed of.

Ok onto building the axles, shotblasted the old casings and all the rusty bits to be renewed a and then after persuauion of the forum opted for a disk rear axle (£150).

New axle was poop and had to replace the trailing arm, spring and shock absorber brackets (about £60 approx) Got my old man to weld the brackets (cost £0 but amount of abuse about my pidgeon poo welding..... )

Refurbing rear axle about £85 (new bearings and bits needed).

Next refurbing the front axle appriximately £160 as I have replaced both swivels and all wheel bearings.

That's me so far but still anticipate the following costs:

Galv Chassis (approx) £1250

Engine Rebuild (approx) £250-400 depending on what I find.

New wiring (will do myself) £100-200.

Respray (approx) £500-600 as I have someone good doing it on the side peicemeeal.

Wright Offroad Sound Proofing (£250-300).

Noise insulation for the bulkhead (£100-250)

Dinitrol or the likes for coating the inside surfaces of the bulkhead (£100-150)

I have probably missed something but so far expected cost is around £5000 (cost of the garage obviously not included) and will more likely be about £7000 when finished.

However, I set out with the intention of building a 10 year vehicle that will be reliable and practicle.

The added point to make is that I will basicly have a new land rover slighty better than new (someone will disagree I know) for £7000 that will hopefully last me years.

Time spent so far is about a year and a half but isn't completely accurate scale as I work away a bit, had to spend most of the summer building my big shed and having to balance time working against time with the family is an important factor.

The strange thing though is that I do seem to do more in the autumn winter time than in the summer as everyone seems to stay indoors watching the telly (which is carp anyway hence going out to the garage )

I enjoy the time working in the garage and ties in as a hobby as well.

Hope you take the plunge!

Cheers

G

[JimC]

I did basically exactly what you are talking about, here is my experience and some pix:

http://www.d-90.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7144

[nobber]

its a long , drawn out process building a 90 but a hell of a lot of fun, well sometimes it is. sometimes you really feel like throwing in the towel and getting rid.

the advantages are you get a vehicle you know inside out and one built to your own spec.

the disadvantages are it will never be worth what you spend on it.

i tended to look for parts/bits to personalise my 90 other than the norm but i didnt want to bolt on 'accessories' as i wanted to keep it looking like a landrover and not a life size childs toy, ive just tonight fitted a stage one v8 grille and i have 4 6.5 steel rims awaiting tyres , ex military door tops etc etc.

id say go for it but dont just build a run of the mil 90 , make it special.

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=75716