Shed plans Mk2 - with added CAD

[FridgeFreezer]

I thought I'd start a new topic since my last shed plan was while the 109 was in build and I ended up taking people's (very wise) advice and just living with being cold and wet and finishing the vehicle.

Anyway, now it's done and I want somewhere warm and dry for it to live. It already stands on a concrete slab that was handily there when I moved in. Planning permission has been negotiated locally (don't ask) so all I need now is a design.

Well, I've got a design but not being in the construction trade and having lost my big book of DIY for dummies I thought I'd post it up here to get a sanity check.

Construction is intended to be steel box of 50x50 although I may have found a source of some surplus 40x40 which I'm hoping will save money and be up to the job. I'm reluctant to use timber as it seems to resist being welded together

Cladding will be sheets of ply or similar, hence why as much as possible has been done in 1200x2400 sizes or multiples thereof. I may add some cosmetical stuff on the outside to keep the neighbours happy.

Roofing I'm still not 100% sure on, corrugated roof stuff (there seems to be a selection of stuffs from steel to polycarb) is slightly in the lead on price.

And so to the plans, first up - the layout of my garden:

The guy with the garage often parks his car in front of it which means a door that swings out, or up, could find itself blocked. Since I have acquired the parts necessary to make a sliding door, that's the plan.

So, the actual garage plan itself:

Just to explain the margin doodlings, the existing concrete slab is 26' by 12'9 and the 109 is 8' high.

Converting to metric and rounding a few things gave me the plan to make it 3m high on the "high" side, sloping to a standard-panel 2.4m high on the garden side, 7.6m wide to allow a gap between shed & fences, and 4.8m deep giving me a straight four-panel-wide cladding job on the ends.

Side profile:

I have marked on the height of the 109 - the plan is to have benches along the lower side so the lack of height shouldn't be a problem - making it higher, which would be nice, takes me into cloudy waters with planning

Alley facing wall:

Garden facing wall:

I have designed in a removable section so that I can get large things (EG vehicles) in & out of the garden if needed.

Roof:

My main areas of cluelessness are:

- Will 40 or 50mm box section be sufficient to span 4.8m of the roof (if not, what will?)

- Is the roof slope OK? Would more/less be better?

- How do you make a sliding door so that it is secure and can be locked/unlocked from either side

- Suggestions for cladding/roofing materials

- Is there enough cross-bracing in it?

- Am I daft making it out of steel when wood/blocks would be better (if so, why? bearing in mind my likely incompetence at carpentry or brickwork)

The more I look at this, the more I think making it a tad higher would be wise - don't want to overshadow the neighbours too much but equally don't want to end up scraping my roof on the top of the door

Might measure the neighbour's shed see how it compares.

[bishbosh]

Cross bracing - you only need one cross in each plane, incldung the roof (which at the moment you don't have.)

To effectively drain your roof needs a 1:40 slope minimum having allowed for the sag at midspan. Yours looks OK.

Strength to span that far - hmmm, dunno, but you could easily make up a shallow truss. Wind loading is complicated and I cannot be @rsed to dig out the buildings code.

Sliding door? Dunno - ask Pikey.

Roofing material - go for some corrugated sheeting with occasional polycarb skylights. Make sure the roof overhangs front and rear a bit.

You are not daft making it out of steel, especially if you have a source. Just make sure (and I am being serious now ) that it doesn't blow away!!

Don't forget you will need lighting in there so make sure you don't smash them each time you park the 109

[FridgeFreezer]

Cross bracing - you only need one cross in each plane, incldung the roof (which at the moment you don't have.)

So I need a diagonal across the roof? That's doable. If I dropped half the spans out (at 2400mm not 1200mm intervals) and put X's in instead would that be a more efficient use of material?

Strength to span that far - hmmm, dunno, but you could easily make up a shallow truss. Wind loading is complicated and I cannot be @rsed to dig out the buildings code.

A shallow truss may interfere with the top of the 109, I'm now (even more) considering raising the roof by a bit to give me room to put trusses & lights (etc.) in.

Just make sure (and I am being serious now ) that it doesn't blow away!!

Plan is to rawl-bolt plates to the concrete and weld the uprights to them.

Don't forget you will need lighting in there so make sure you don't smash them each time you park the 109

The glitterball will be tucked into a corner I think, out of harm's way

[bishbosh]

Yup, dropping alternate rafters would work I suppose. You need to make sure you have sufficient supports for the roofing material you end up with though. Alternatively you could use something like 50 x 5 flat to form the crosses with the rafters still in...

When you bolt it down, be wary of mechanical expanding fixings - over time with cyclic loading (e.g. wind load) they can work loose. Much better to use a resin fixing.

I knoew the glitterball would be safe, but what about the disco lights and the lazers?

[FridgeFreezer]

I know the glitterball would be safe, but what about the disco lights and the lazers?

Stop reading my secret plans!

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Shame it isn't a diesel...then u'd have a smoke machine too....

[PaulMc]

Be careful about the interior dimensions exceeding 30m2 and, because of the materials you're using, the building's proximity to the boundary with your neighbours.

The local council where I used to live (Bexley) have this to say about detached garages -

A detached garage is a garage which is structurally unconnected to a dwelling and is used for the storage of cars.

An application is not required if the detached (single-storey) building contains no sleeping accommodation, has a floor area not exceeding 30 square metres and is either:

• constructed substantially of non-combustible material, or
  
• at any point, greater than one metre from any boundary.
  

If the detached building has a floor area exceeding 30 square metres then it is necessary to make an application to Building Control.

I think that these restrictions apply nationwide (unless you live in a conservation area, when there are even more restrictions).

When I built a detached garage at my last house, I ensured that it was under 30m2 internally (6.5m x 4.5m) and under 3m high, so I didn't bother involving planning or building control as I was exempt from their interference.

Unfortunately, one of my neighbours decided that the garage was too high and was spoiling her view (this was when it was still walls and before I'd put the roof on) and went around getting-up a petition and complaining to the council.

I had a visit from a sad little man from building control who tried telling me all sorts of cr@p as to why I couldn't have a garage the size it was (he'd 'phoned beforehand to make an appointment to come and look at the garage, so I'd prepared myself by printing-off all the guidelines from their website which confirmed I was within my permitted development rights) so I was able to counter all of his fatuous arguments, EXCEPT the one about proximity to the boundaries. This meant that I couldn't have a boarded and felted roof as this was considered too flammable, so I said I would cover the roof with box-profile metal sheeting and that was his last objection shot-down.

I never had any more bother from the council after that. The neighbours, however, are another story

Paul.

[mike4444244]

lol just threaten to paint it lime green and day glow pink stripes if they dont shut up... the neighbours next to my grans old house where i worked on the landys etc have always complained about the cars outside and noise etc, they even complained about the truck last weekend which i was using to move to my new unit!!!!!! i just told them I was moving out so I could use the space for my heavy metal band to practice

Fridge looks like your planned area is 36.5 sq Metres, sounds like you might need to lose some width?

Mike

[FridgeFreezer]

The neighbours are cool with it, they both have shed/workshop/garages that the council don't know about so we reached an agreement that I wouldn't bother the nice man from the council and they wouldn't either

[Astro_Al]

Fridge - you gonna be ready this weekend? I've got time to kill...

Al. B)

[FridgeFreezer]

Not for building, maybe for some concrete if I get me finger out - anyway, ain't you got a car to build?

[66gaza]

Fridge - you gonna be ready this weekend? I've got time to kill...

Al. B)

Just wondering if you are still planning on using that heavy yank manual gearbox Al as I could be persuaded to liberate it from you

Gaza

[T1G UP]

theres a ruling,in my manor, that the garage has to be 5 metres or more away from the property? does this effect you in your area?

[FridgeFreezer]

theres a ruling,in my manor, that the garage has to be 5 metres or more away from the property? does this effect you in your area?

Nope, this is more than 5m anyway.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Fridge

for the roof I would go with the tim honoured technique of barn builders everywhere. I would suggest a small I-beam as a main rafter across the centre span of the roof (the short direction). From there to either end wall you can use suitable sized timber purlins (4x2 will be adequate) at 2 foot centres. This gives you somewhere suitable to nail/techscrew your roofing sheets into. If your I beam is a suitable size you can slot the purlins into it and thuis not lose any internal height. Weld a suitable eye to the beam and you have somewhere to fix a small hoist. Box section is not good as a roof as shown, it will sag unless you get some sort of truss in there. It is also not good for fixing roofing sheets to and is heavier than wood for the same strength in that application.

[Orgasmic Farmer]

Excuse mickey mouse4 diagram. Green is steel, beige is wood, black is roofing sheet.

Top is purlin to I-beam detail

bottom left is roof plan

bottom right is detail of edge fixing using a cleat welded to top of end wall and a bolt through the purlin. Similar fixing needed on the I beam too

[PaulMc]

My main areas of cluelessness are:

- How do you make a sliding door so that it is secure and can be locked/unlocked from either side

You can get mortice locks for sliding doors, like this Chubb model, which you can buy keyed-alike -

Chubb 3M50 Sliding Door Lock

http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Slid...oor_Locks_.html

I would have one a quarter of the way up from the bottom of the door and another (keyed-alike) a quarter of the way down from the top of the door.

Another idea is to have locking bolts top and bottom of the door, that lock into the concrete floor and the head of the door frame, like these -

Pacri Garage Door Lock

http://www.locksonline.co.uk/acatalog/Pacr..._Door_Lock.html

Yet another idea is to have the sliding door secured on the inside with hasp/staple/padlock and/or padlocking bolts into the concrete floor and the head of the door frame, with access to/from the alley through a wicket door in the sliding door. The wicket door would have a Yale cylinder lock and/or mortice deadlocks which would enable pedestrian access from the alley to go inside the garage and unlock the main sliding door for vehicle access, like this -

My main areas of cluelessness are:

- Suggestions for cladding/roofing materials

I would suggest box-profile metal sheeting, which can also incorporate translucent sheets for natural light. Another, cheaper, alternative is PVC or GRP sheets, which can also incorporate translucent panels.

I bought mine from this lot -

C & A Building Plastics

Their products were OK, but they were a bunch of dozy muppets to deal with

Paul.

[Boothy]

Why is it every fiddler/builder loves a new workshop/garage but within weeks it's full of carp and an extension is on the plans?

SWMBO left the washing basket in my garage because I had to concede to the washer and drier in the corner, and then she leaves the basket full of freshly tumbled dried clothers, while I was angle grinding in bliss I noticed the smoke build up, don't any of you go there especially when it's her clothes, it's like a bleedin horror story.

Result, hamering of ears, hammering of credit card to replace said burned items, and supply of time and transport to aid replacement, and thats not one trip boys!!, you wouldn't believe the amount of hassle it causes, and you would not belive how much stuff woman can get in a plastic basket (or so they say).

DON'T GO THERE, you have been warned. Keep the basket well away, make a stand at the early stages.

[PaulMc]

I had to concede to the washer and drier in the corner

Domestic appliances HAVE NO PLACE in a man's garage

... except for a fridge - to contain ONLY milk for tea/coffee, snacks and beers

Paul.

[FridgeFreezer]

There's no SWMBO in my household (and before some smart-arse suggests it there's no HWMBO either ) so the only domestic appliances likely to find their way in would be workshop luxuries rather than household necessities.

Cheers for the lock links Paul, very handy!

[muddy]

I must say a tumble drier does make a pretty good workshop heater

I would definatly design in an area for fabrication/grinding as to be able to contain grinding dust in one area, since i have built a fabrication bench the main bench has been kept much tidyer and the whole garage is much nicer without everything covered in dust and carp.

[LandyManLuke]

I must say a tumble drier does make a pretty good workshop heater

Yes it does!!

Definitely would agree that grindings are the worst for keeping a worshop/garage clean. I grind outside during the summer and the garage stays spotless*!!

*spotless in terms of all the junk piled around is clean of grindings, not necassarily tidy itself, or clean of oil or grease etc.

[SiWhite]

Ref the locks - don't rely just on Yale type rim cylinder locks - the ones that 'slam' shut. They are very easily defeated - part of my job is slipping through doors unnoticed

Get some deadbolting locks and a couple of the spline drive deadbolts too.

[twizzle]

I must say a tumble drier does make a pretty good workshop heater

I would definatly design in an area for fabrication/grinding as to be able to contain grinding dust in one area, since i have built a fabrication bench the main bench has been kept much tidyer and the whole garage is much nicer without everything covered in dust and carp.

you need a calor wood burner just like mine

with up side down wok on chimny

[bishbosh]

But don't all the noodles just slide off?