BogMonster Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 The correct driving speed for a kinetic recovery is walking pace. These two in the film are clowns, ignorance masquerading as knowledge !Mo Nail on head. Nothing is more dangerous than "educational" videos made by "helpful" people who are doing something #kin dangerous or stupid, and making it look (to the uninitiated) like it is the way it should be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Isn't the recovery eye on the Disco for towing?I wouldn't think it was rated for snatch recovery. Having been at the end of a flying Kinetic rope/shackle not a thing I'd want to repeat i'd have more confidence in the bit on the D3 over a std LR fitted tow hitch on a def. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 using a hi-lift jack & adjustable chains is very slow & extremely hard work, it's all manual power, as for safe it's as safe as any other method provided the users know what thier doing & how to do it.have a read here use the 'learn with david' link in the left column & then the 'using a hi-lift' in the index Thanks for the link Ralph, very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Has anybody tried using a high lift for recovery or is that even more dangerous? Quite a few years ago the Horsham mob were out Greenlaning somewhere in Sussex / Surrey with not a usable winch between us. There was a nasty step about 4ft high that just was not driveable and Paul Wightman being a resourceful chap had a set of chains and I had the high-lift. Amazing how we managed to get one of the vehicles up the step to pull the others through using the high lift and 2 or 3 shortening chains, shackles and a strop. Took some time and sweat but we didn't have to turn around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clbarclay Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I find the most dangerous thing with kenetic ropes is not the physical equipment its self, but the mind set that tends to come with them. Recoveries generate shock loads. The higher the speed of the recovery and the less stretch in the system them the greater the shock loads are. A kenetic rope reduces these shock loads compared to an ordinary rope (for the same speed of recovery), though obviously the slow speed of a winch is best for keeping the excessive forces to a minimum. Also remeber that all things stretch to some degree, the time I witnesed a NATO hitch riped off was during snatching recovery with a normal rope, and that ended up catapulted into the tailgate of the recovering vehicle. The best way to ring a kenetic rope as I understand it is to use bridels, fed through the loops on the kenetic, so the load is evanly spread between the 2 chassis rails and if something metal does break then the other side of the bridel stops it being catapolted too far. Winching with a hilift should be perfectly safe as long as you make sure the weakest link is the shear bolt on the handle. The same goes for electric/hydraulic/pto winches where the weakest link should be the motor stalling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 just like this, how I connect my kerr to my 110's rear when it comes out to work & similar on the to be recovered vehicle but without the extra strap to the nato hitc as the stuck vehicle probably won't have anything on the front to attach it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Projectblue Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I watched and thought the same as everyone else about the kerr, but was I the only one who was astounded when he got the winch out? I thought they musn't have had one. Why o why would you risk a super long kerr recovery when you have a piggin winch there? Surely the labour of getting the winch out was no more than attaching the two kerrs? Muppetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 ^^^ Wot he said. If you have a winch why not use it in the first place ? Something Iwas told many years ago was to join 2 strops using a piece of wood which should break before a mounting point (not talking about a pick elve here). That way if the wood breaks you don't have a metal shackle flying about. It surprising how much energy a piece of wood will take before it breaks. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 ^^^ Wot he said. If you have a winch why not use it in the first place ? Something Iwas told many years ago was to join 2 strops using a piece of wood which should break before a mounting point (not talking about a pick elve here). That way if the wood breaks you don't have a metal shackle flying about. It surprising how much energy a piece of wood will take before it breaks.Ivan Hi Ivan, using a piece of wood to effect a join isn't a good idea either, as no one knows the strength of the wood. If a rope is attached to a vehicle, pass the free end loop through the loop of the second rope, then pass the other end of the second rope through the loop on the end of the first rope. I suspect the person who told you was getting confused with using a piece of wood to stop two interlooped ropes from tightening on each other during a recovery. Ideally a piece of something softer should be used. I keep a small piece of carpet in the Landy for this purpose. I just roll ot into a small tube and place it between the interlocked loops. After a recovery it is easy to separate the ropes. You can use a rolled up newspaper, magazine or a stick or similar. Newspaper tends to go soggy though, and big sticks can be dangerous. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streaky Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 We've tried to teach our club members to do away with steel shackles in favor of the soft ones. I have two sizes in the armory...7 ton breaking strain (yellow) & ten ton (Black). I'm a great fan of the bridal arrangement shown in Ralphs Jpeg....used in conjunction with two jate rings and my Dixon bate jaw...the soft shackles are the way to go IMHO. For the entire system to be effective it's vital that both the vehicles involved in the recovery are equipped with suitable recovery points though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 23, 2007 Share Posted December 23, 2007 Muppetry. yes. I actually heard what they were talking about, talking flemish, they wouldnot be on my list of people to go offroading with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 23, 2007 Author Share Posted December 23, 2007 Are there any events coming up preferably in February where I can see some decent and safe recovery work? I need to learn the 'ropes' so to speak. Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Paul, I'd suggest that you'd be better off having some training (there are people on here who offer such a service) than watching what goes on at events. At most events the standard of recovery work can vary hugely, how would you know what you where watching was good practice or potentially lethal? Also you might miss some of the less obvious key points without having them pointed out to you. There are some good how to guides on David Bowers website, have you seen those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 Paul, I'd suggest that you'd be better off having some training (there are people on here who offer such a service) than watching what goes on at events. At most events the standard of recovery work can vary hugely, how would you know what you where watching was good practice or potentially lethal? Also you might miss some of the less obvious key points without having them pointed out to you.There are some good how to guides on David Bowers website, have you seen those? Thanks Mark, No I haven't seen this website. Do you have a web address for David? I take your point about watching. Do you know which forum members offer training? I have had a look around for a local LR group here in this part of Germany but with little success. The army do some off road training but this is for their own lads rather than civilians. I do not have a winch yet, but will need to get this sorted before I go to Transylvania in April. I don't really have the outlay to buy a new one, so will be on the lookout for a second hand one. Cheers, paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Paul --- www.davidbowyer.com click the 'Learn with David' in the left sidebar near the bottom of the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 Thanks Ralph and yes, I have seen this site before on your recommendation. Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks906 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 hi paul here's a little link for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul64 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 hi paul here's a little link for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JBnxSqpuCM dave Nice one Dave. He certainly knows what he is talking about. Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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