Bio Diesel

[pugwash]

there's a number of places around

http://www.neoda.org.uk/ will probably be able to help with someone local. http://www.fosfa.org/ would probably be able to help too

otherwise you are look at a wholesaler- i used to get bulk deliveries from a company called http://www.kassero.co.uk/index.htm who also supply bulk bio diesel!

[acwid]

Hey up chaps been runining on wvo for 10 months 50/50 summer 70/30 winter starts 1st time every time.Have got a 200tdi 110 just have to change fuel filter every 4/5 months smells nice though

[yogibear47.lee]

In summer I ran my astra 1.7 td on veg oil nothing less but run it on diesel in winter

[mattmoo]

BE WARNED,pulled my mates focus apart after he ran it on veg all full time,"head gasket went" Carbons up everything

so if you use it alot you will lose power and have to pull it apart

in fairnest,it covered 60k

[RRX]

Diesels are black inside anyway. Keep and eye on the oil and change it about every 6-8k and shouldn't really have any issues. most landrovers have nice simple diesel engines, no complicated common rail stuff like the focus.

[61a]

Having started this discussion off I decided to bite the bullet and put 20 litres in and give it a go. Hardly a scientific test but this is what I found.

Quite a notceable increse in engine noise, which even my wife commented on without any prompting from me.

A deffinate loss of power, a bit like putting the egr back on, I was dropping down a gear to go up hills where it usually pulls without a problem.

The fuel guage definately went down quicker than usual.I am not a high mileage user but do a similar mileage most weeks and know roughly how much fuel I use.

I refilled it with normal BP diesel and after about 10 miles the engine was definately back to its usual volume and its power delivery was back to normal. Whether the stuff I used was a dodgy batch or not I have no idea but certainly won't be trying it again.

For the record my 300 tdi has done 137,000 miles and runs on semi synthetic oil. I have onlyjust serviced it but am going to change the fuel filter again just to be on the safe side.

Jules

[jas97disco]

I've been running my 97 300TDi auto on a diesel/ pure veg oil mix about 50/50 (+dribble of white spirit) for 18 months and its been fine. Did it as the car is past 100k miles so not too worried if I killed it. No problems at all, if anything it picks up more quickly. I use new oil from a well known wholesaler about £11-12 for 20 litre drum so it burns more cleanly that used oil. Dont use it over winter and dont use more that the tax threashold specifies. So impressed it worked I quite fancy dropping a diesel engine from a Smart car into a Triumph spitfire as a project.

[Night Train]

I have recently started using B100 in my Skoda Octavia.

It has done 120,000 miles in 6 years and was returning a nice healthy 60-65mpg on long runs.

With the B100 I have noticed more noise and a drop in power and increased fuel consumption to around 50-55mpg. I am only on my second tank full so I will give it a fair run and then get it serviced to see what shows up. I will then go back to mineral diesel to see what happens and if I get the power and economy back.

Depending on what I find I will then decide what I stick with. The B100 is costing me 95p/litre and is slightly less financially viable at this loss of economy. Also, according to a recent report in the Guardian it isn't much greener then good quality mineral diesel.

I thought about Straight Veg Oil (SVO) but the glycerin in it plasticises at high temperatures and can gunge up the pistons, cylinders, valves and injectors. As I use the car everyday to earn a living I didn't want that risk.

[TheRecklessEngineer]

Also, according to a recent report in the Guardian it isn't much greener then good quality mineral diesel.

I've often wondered about that - by the time you have used a load of electricity heating the stuff, and bunged in a load of methanol (that is made from oil in the first place) and of course washed it with a load of water...exactly how green is it?

[rtbarton]

I've often wondered about that - by the time you have used a load of electricity heating the stuff, and bunged in a load of methanol (that is made from oil in the first place) and of course washed it with a load of water...exactly how green is it?

My take on green economics is do what suits your pocket and sod all the other arguments.

For everyone that says one thing somebody will come along and contradict them.

[Superpants]

There was quite an interesting article in the Telegraph magazine on Saturday

Telegraph Article

Quite a lot about the green economics

[geoffbeaumont]

So impressed it worked I quite fancy dropping a diesel engine from a Smart car into a Triumph spitfire as a project.

Having tried running a small diesel (1.4 NA Peugeot) on bio, I suspect it wouldn't work very well. Bio is thicker than mineral diesel, and small engines don't seem to like it very much. Your mileage may vary, of course. After my experiences before christmas I'm not running bio at all now, but I might do if the Land Rover wasn't my daily drive.

[freeagent]

Hmmm, am beginning to think that Biodiesel is not the answer.. i'm having to mix it 50/50 with dino diesel to get the truck to run and start properly at the moment, and when i tipped the jerry can of Bio i bought last week into the tank yesterday there was a bit of beige sludge in the bottom... at 94p per litre I don't think its worth it.

At least SVO is clean stable and cheap (56p per litre) and i can run the truck 50/50 in the summer with no issues...

[Petergg]

Bought some Bio Diesel Last week in France from Total Garage pump @ 1.29.9 Euros, so over £1 ltr made my TD5 miss fire when cold, normal Diesel was 1.25.9 ltr getting as expensive as UK.

[Matt B]

Bought some Bio Diesel Last week in France from Total Garage pump @ 1.29.9 Euros, so over £1 ltr made my TD5 miss fire when cold, normal Diesel was 1.25.9 ltr getting as expensive as UK.

That's buying it from the pump though, the oil companies aren't passing the lower duty on to the customer. It's the same with all these green initiatives, they provide a good way of tugging on your concience to make you pay as much for cheap to produce solutions as the ones produced at normal cost. As more people subscribe to the green agenda so the cost will rise.

Simple solution, make your own.

[DaveA]

Very quickly -

Ran my TD5 disco on BIO for a couple of months, no real noticable issues, except a little more difficult to start.

However -

Fuel pump started to squeal, then gave up. I thought it was bit of a fluke, so I replaced with another unit, but stopped using bio.

Started to squeal again, so changed fuel filter & it went away, for a while, then returned, changed filter again.

Next, the engine started missing, so I did all the normal things, oil in injector harness etc, which seemed to help. A week later, still missing, then fuel pump squealed again and gave up. ON removing the pump, it had blocked at the fuel pickup and pulled in the gauze from the bottom of the pump throgh the pump and jammed it.

I replaced the pump with a later model which seemed ok for bit, but engine started missing again. Further upstream ... fuel regulator now started leaking. During replacing this, I noticed that the gauze "strainer" behind the regulator was full of crud, which looked like parts of the spin-on fuel filter. Had the filter started to degrade and go up the fuel lines ?

All seems ok at the moment, but who knows what next ...

BAsed on this, I wouldn't use bio again at all, even though it appears cheapers. Be careful !

Cheers - Dave (Waiting to break down again, in a vehicle that was reliable before BIO !)

[Night Train]

I gave up on B100. I was losing so much power and economy even after a service, filter change and timing/tuning check that it wasn't viable.

[macdon2000]

Hello. My names Mark. I have been lurking for a few weeks but thought I'd finally say Hello.

We have been running bio @ 100% for nearly 2 years. We change our oil every 3000 and have had no issues. Running it in several 300tdi's and 1 2.8tgv. Changed fuel filters at 100 miles, 500 miles , 1000 miles and then with the oil changes. Over a few vehicles we have done close to 100,000miles with no issues. Just about to start running in a TD5 but probbaly at 50% bio to mineral instead. Bio diesel is far more enviromentally friendly as long as it uses waste oil in the process as it is a waste product rather than an orginal one. Using Bio does also lower your emmsions by up to 80% (I have my MOT emmsions statement to prove it). There is a huge difference in quality of bio depending on the base oil, which is why some of you are getting poorer BHP and MPG. Stick with it and either make it yourself or find a good supplier you trust. A good sign is when they use it in there own trucks. (Quite alot of them don't!) As for rubber seals. Anything post 1992 should be OK. If you have a LUCAS fuel pump then they don';t like it but BOSCH is absolutley fine. Hope this helps.

[Night Train]

Hi Mark and welcome.

I switched to using B100 in my car, Skoda Octavia, and the supplier says that most of it comes from unused cooking oil that has failed food hygine. They do use it in their own trucks and I have seen them pouring in 2 litre bottles of cooking oil that is out of date into their processor tank. However, I found that I was using a lower gear more often and my tank range dropped from 550-600miles down to 450miles. The emissions were loads cleaner though but at that drop in economy, I just couldn't afford to run it. It worked out at about 12% cheaper but I used 18-25% more of it. I drive 20k miles a year and it adds up.

The supplier did say that every now and again he would find that one particular vehicle will perform badly even though others of the same make, model and engine are fine.

[Night Train]

Hi Mark and welcome.

I switched to using B100 in my car, Skoda Octavia, and the supplier says that most of it comes from unused cooking oil that has failed food hygine. They do use it in their own trucks and I have seen them pouring in 2 litre bottles of cooking oil that is out of date into their processor tank. However, I found that I was using a lower gear more often and my tank range dropped from 550-600miles down to 450miles. The emissions were loads cleaner though but at that drop in economy, I just couldn't afford to run it. It worked out at about 12% cheaper but I used 18-25% more of it. I drive 20k miles a year and it adds up.

The supplier did say that every now and again he would find that one particular vehicle will perform badly even though others of the same make, model and engine are fine.

[tacr2man]

I have been running bio diesel for about 2 years , in 300tdi auto, 200tdi auto, LDV minibus (pug engine) , Maestro turbo diesel, even in winter running b100 no probs, although got some from a differnt supplier, into the 300tdi, had bad waxing probs, had to clean sedimentor twice, filter twice, and dilute with 5% ptrol and diesel mix . So it seems to depend on your supplier a lot if you are going to run into waxing probs. the 200 tdi and maestro always quick to start winter or summer 300tdi (EDC) a bit slower. Have noticed no power or fuel consumption increase (57 maestro 30 on discos 24 ldv) all on longish runs. Have had no engine probs etc on any of them , total mileage in region of 150,000 in 2 yrs. I dont buy bio to refuel when away from home . The only downside is the financial shock when driving my 110 V8 CSW

[macdon2000]

Forgot to say that we make our own bio and in the winter I add 2% petrol to stop waxing and a 'bit' (not very scienticifc) of 2 stroke oil. Not had any waxing or non starting issues.