SteveRK Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Having approached two local companies that specialise in nothing but servicing and repairing Land Rovers I have been somewhat dissapointed by their apparent lack of interest in doing some welding repair work to the back end of my Rangie. Yes, it appears that my example needs quite a bit of TLC but I thought thats what they're supposed to provide us owners with - in return for the large sums of money that we pay them. If anyone knows of a sympathetic welder who has an interest in keeping these cars on the road i would be gratefull for any referrals. I am in Berkshire. Essentially we have the corroded rear crossmember and parts of the floor as shown Near Side is Rotten out: The crossmember on the offside is in better shape to look at but the whole lots needs pulling out as the floor areas are perforated in several places I would have thought it possible to cut along the length where the centre floor section meets the side sections and weld in some sheet? A new floor (onyl avaialbe from Land Rover i am told is £330!) is somewhat of an overkill solution to me and no doubt there will need to be some cutting back along the edges of the side panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojmz Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 a new floor available from paddocks is about 50 quid plus the vat mate think the crossmember bits for under the floor are about 8-14 quid each too if you needed them ps. ive seen a lot worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 AFAIK the floor for a rangie is not available from paddocks. There is a disco one, but it is about 4" too short, so has to be butchered to fit. You will also need to make up new side sections, and likley the cross members underneath too. A better option is to find a scrapped pre-86 model and take the aluminuim floor out of it, as it will almost certianly be in perfect condidiotn, and only held on with pop-rivets. Same goes for the Rear body cross member - we fitted one from a 1983 car to my brother's '92 vehicle, as the material was about twice as thick... I recently carried out pretty much exactly the repairs you need - It was about 4 days work, and the customer (my brother) had already done all the disassembly, and then did the reassembly and painting afterwards, so to be honest, I can see why they are not that interested.... If I were you, I would spend the cash on a welder and learn to do it. If it is that bad at the back end, the front is bound to need the same treatment before too long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks for the tips and advice Gents. I think i will have to bite the bullet and start off gently with the angle grinder and see where it leads to. If i end up with a cheese grate floor then your suggestions re: early type RR floor and Disco' floor can be explored. And yes - some minor rot on the front N/S footwell and both front inner wheel arches are cheese graters Regards Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 And yes - some minor rot on the front N/S footwell and both front inner wheel arches are cheese graters mine are lace curtains... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discojmz Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 mine are lace curtains... show off! mine are just boring metal. so i painted them black hammerite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks for the tips and advice Gents.I think i will have to bite the bullet and start off gently with the angle grinder and see where it leads to. If i end up with a cheese grate floor then your suggestions re: early type RR floor and Disco' floor can be explored. And yes - some minor rot on the front N/S footwell and both front inner wheel arches are cheese graters Regards Steve I am the brother that Mark speaks of!! Believe me - I thought that there was only a little bit of rust, but once you start cutting out, you'll have to go quite a way before you find solid metal that you are able to weld to!! I am not really that into fabrication and I can't weld (medical reasons) and it only got done because I bullied Mark into it!! He loves it really I keep meaning to upload all the pictures of the job on mine, but time keeps eluding me!! Maybe I'll get to doing it now that someone else needs to see what happens!! It is one helluvva job to do and I wouldn't have taken it on without having someone that knows vaguely what they are doing... Best of luck......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Yeah, get the pictures up Mr Orange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks Orange for sharing the experience - I hear what you r saying about the extent of rust always being worse that initially thought. Them' corrosion engineers at Solihull sure knew wat they were doin. Great design work with all those overlapping joints, blind cavities and water traps. Being as I have already spent far more money (and time) than i should have on improving its running order i am sort of commited - beyond the point of no return almost.......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Being as I have already spent far more money (and time) than i should have on improving its running order i am sort of commited - beyond the point of no return almost.......................... Ah! The voice of LR insanity...you do know it never actually stops? One day you'll have a completely new vehicle and you can start replacing the first bits again - comparisons with the Forth road bridge are entirely valid*. Before you let loose with the angle grinder remember the petrol tank is under that floor When I did mine I drilled all the spot welds out with a fancy drill bit - it's slow work but safer and avoids destroying everything else. Actually, I did most of it with an ordinary bit before I found out about the special spot weld ones - trust me, you want one... I got second hand alloy floor from an old Range Rover from a breakers - cost me about £15 IIRC. It wasn't perfect - you get a bit of sacrificial corrosion around the rivets, but tidied up okay. On my truck there wasn't much left of the ledge it's supposed to rivet to in some places * Except if Brunel had designed it you wouldn't hear about people breaking half shafts. Or driving across soft ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thanks Geoff Yes - a more considered approach would seem prudent - I noted the Screwfix drill bit link so will get 2 of them for Saturday delivery - as you say its the right tool for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willfromsussex Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 do you know if you are meant to punch or drill an indentation before using the spring loaded type ? never had much luck with that type, slides all over the place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 IIRC Britpart list the RRC rear load area floor panel. It's on my list of jobs for this year I've done the replacement rear crossmember job, it's not too bad, just take your time and make sure everything lines up properly. Rear wheelarches will probably want attention too. Dropping the fuel tank will doubtless reveal more horrors, and will give you a chance to clean up and protect the inner sides of the main rails. Common rot areas around the tank are the bottoms of the curved sections of the main rails, and the rear CHASSIS cross member where the fuel tank is bolted too. The mounting is a stupid design and traps muck, promoting rust. I did away with it altogether. I replace one entire face of the cross member with 3mm plate, then welded a length of 25x255x3mm angle across the main rails in the appropriate place, with tapped holes for the tank bolts. Did I mention that the tanks is usually found to be perforated once it's been removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 do you know if you are meant to punch or drill an indentation before using the spring loaded type ? never had much luck with that type, slides all over the place Yes you do need to punch them first - I always go over the area with a wire brush (on a grinder) which shows the spot welds up well, and then punch them with an automatic centre-punch - they don't make much of a dent, but it's enough to locate the drill... IIRC Britpart list the RRC rear load area floor panel. It's on my list of jobs for this yearI've done the replacement rear crossmember job, it's not too bad, just take your time and make sure everything lines up properly. Rear wheelarches will probably want attention too. Dropping the fuel tank will doubtless reveal more horrors, and will give you a chance to clean up and protect the inner sides of the main rails. Common rot areas around the tank are the bottoms of the curved sections of the main rails, and the rear CHASSIS cross member where the fuel tank is bolted too. The mounting is a stupid design and traps muck, promoting rust. I did away with it altogether. I replace one entire face of the cross member with 3mm plate, then welded a length of 25x255x3mm angle across the main rails in the appropriate place, with tapped holes for the tank bolts. Did I mention that the tanks is usually found to be perforated once it's been removed? Unfortunately I did the rear body cross-member first and then discovered that the chassis member and fuel tank mount were gone too. By then the new body member was in the way and made things a lot more difficult. Like you I plated the chassis cross-member with some 3mm steel (it has the towing/recovery mounts on the other side of it so it needs to be strong) and then used some upside-down U-channel to form a new fuel tank mount. While I was at it I lifted it a bit too. My fuel tank was not perforated or anything near, but rust had got into the seams and blown them, so that was replaced too. Replacing the fuel tank lead to fun with the bitchy pump bolts since the 'new' tank had a non functional pump. Oh and then I found that the curved chassis rails (although looking sound and having original paint) were so thin (rusting from the inside) that I could push a screw-driver through them. Well since they are all that holds the aforementioned chassis cross-member on I built them back up with 3mm steel. But of course the towing point reinforcing angle irons are mounted here, so now I am fabricating new ones of them. And how I love welding sitting crouched under a vehicle - isn't it fun the way those spatter-balls get everywhere? Such joy You can see from above how these things kinda snowball, and why anybody sensible (or trying to make a living) would avoid this area like the plague. Sometimes I look at the car and think I should have just bobbed it On the other hand I wouldn't have swapped the experience for the world and one day I might even finish it. While I am in rambling mode - I watched NCIS the other night and wondered if Gibbs' boat is an allegory for his continual striving but never achieving perfection (in his own eyes), and I wondered if the RRC is similar for me... Always striving but never achieving anything other than an ever growing pile of rusty sh t (in the neighbour's eyes)? TwoSheds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 You have a PM It may help you, ..........and no I don't wnat to do it either Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I've done exaclty this repair work to the rear of my 1995 classic. Rear floors are not available from anyone except genuine landrover. I got the early ribbed ally floor and pop rivetted it in. However I found the mounting flanges all the way round my floor were rotten so had to get some repair sections made up to weld in to repair it. Rear body crossmember isnt too bad to do, but you'll probably find that the body mount bolts are impossible to undo, plus as they're dropped in from above you have to cut them to be able to get the old x-member off. Getting the new one in is very very jiggly and was a right pain. A proper spot weld cutter is a very worthwhile investment as there are a hell of a lot of spot welds! i can understand why no-one would want to entertain doing it. Its a piggy of a job, and is very very time consuming. Plus you never really know what you're going to encounter until you start taking it apart. Plus most landrover specialists are not metal fabricators, so would normally not get involved in that sort of thing. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Thanks for more 'Heads up' tips gents - my tank is plastic by the way which is good news - at last some positive aspects to keep morale going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Oh - i forgot to add - lower tailgate needs removing (obviously) but you also need to take the rear bumper off and both rear outer wings (beware they are seam sealed on, and the fuel filler neck is a piggy to get out of the wing), light clusters etc to gain access. However the fuel tank does not need to come out. (I didnt). Yours looks similar to mine, but my floor had bigger holes in than yours! I found that the crossbars that supported the rear floor were sound and didnt need replacing however. If you get hold of an ally floor you'll find all the holes for the bolts for the rear seatbelt mounts etc all line up. If you can get away without having to repair the lip that the boot floor sits in it'll save you alot of work, but I think you'll find its rotten! HTH Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Thanks Jon Yes i'm ready to start on removing the floor as delicately as i can first to see what state the side runners are in. Cross runners appear to be rotten. Then i can remove the rear wings and tackle removal of the rear crossmember. All interspersed with lots of cups of tea of course I may start this weekend time permitting & will take pictures to log what goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Do you have another vehicle to drive while you're working on it? I didn't when I did mine (the floor - couldn't really do it with the cross members), but a spare tire weighs the floor down nicely. Doesn't do much about the noise or the exhaust fumes though - and driving with the windows down at this time of year is a bit damp and chilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Gaffer tape! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Here's what we had to do on mine... Floor and Cross member I hope it helps and doesn't put you off doing it. Bear in mind that before doing this job (and the sills), my experience of in-situ repairs was absolutely zip. I would tackle the same thing again, with the right people helping, of course, so it's beneficial to do it yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Many Thanks Orange Excellant pictures & write - up. Usefull info' & i'm not gonna tempt fate and say that overall mine isn't quite as bad as yours was! My new Mig welder arrived today but will being staying in its box for the moment as i have some MOT work on my Transit to carry out before turning on the grinder. I also intend to photo the progress of my repairs as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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