Crazy Fuel

[land rover newbie]

I have just started to work on the engine on my series 3 diesel.

It is smoking baby blue smoke only on hard acceleration,so i changed the fuel filter and no change but did smell a really weird smell from it it smelt like paraffin and white spirit

So i drained the tank and got a strange coloured liquid out of the tank,it had red diesel in it but was more of a orangey colour.

My question is what sort of damage could this have done to the engine?

I have heard that these engines are very hard wearing but am worried about the damage that could have been done i have no idea how long the engine has been run on the fuel as it came from a farm.

I put some clean diesel in from a garage and the smoke has become less but im still worried any advice would be great.

[Les Henson]

It sounds like the previous owner has bunged anything in that'll burn. Run it for a while on normal diesel and let it clean itself out, then change the oil and filters. If it's been running for any length of time on red diesel or any other non-taxed fuel, then watch out if you get pulled by Customs and Exise - they will still be able to detect residue in the exhaust pipe and you could end-up in deep trouble.

Les.

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd second Les's advice and suggest running a tankfull of BP Ultimate through it, or some Redex diesel injector cleaner, to try and flush it through and clean anything away.

Blue smoke is usually burning oil but by the sounds of it that could just as easily be whatever the heck was in the tank

[jimmy_neutron]

Orange .. Hmmm .. the colour of keroscene (yellow) and 2 stroke oil. Or keroscene and red diesel.

Very illegal for road use though.

Damage is dependant on the mix used, knowledge of the person doing the mixing, and length of time it been used.

Red diesel is absolutely fine for the engine. Keroscene lacks lubricants so may damage the fuel pumps and injectors etc.

Presumably this vehicle was an off road only vehicle. Be careful about returning it to road use.

[western]

I heard or read somewhere that the chemical markers in 'red' diesel fuel are traceable for upto 5 years after the vehicle stops using 'red', so a good clean of the system & a note carried in the vehicle stating were you bought it & when you took it off 'red' should help, if you where to get stopped at a fuel check.

[cunningpork]

by any chance did you buy this in northern ireland, near crumlin?? because i remember going to look at one like that near where i asked you

[Orgasmic Farmer]

I also understand that there is a threshold percentage of red below which they won't prosecute without good reason. Its because the same tankers carry red one day and normal the next and there will always be some residue, even at the pumps. Not worth the the risk though IMHO.

[jimmy_neutron]

If it was me, i think i'd be flushing the fuel lines and replacing the tank.

Do the old series have a return to tank line ? If they do then its a much bigger job.

[Les Henson]

When I bought my first 109 the tank was 1/2 full of red diesel and it had been used on the road regularly by the guy I bought it off. Anyway - I drained the tank and fuel lines and filled with normal diesel. I asked the Police about the red diesel and he told me to make a note of his name in case there was a C&E check. I bought a new tank, exhaust system, and fuel lines anyway - you never know.

Les.

[disco tony]

Start keeping reciepts when you refuel, surely proof for any customs officer?

[land rover newbie]

Hi all thnks for all your advice not very happy about the red diesel thing but guess i will have to deal with it.

I was talking to a friend today and he was saying that by adjusting the diesel pump timing it can help with smoke is this true?

If it is true how do i adjust it?

Also looking on the bad side how would i tell if there is any major damage done to the engine? engine smokes a lot when you floor it not when you hold the throttle steady only a bit of smoke?

As you can see from the picture she is changing all the time

[rtbarton]

Start keeping reciepts when you refuel, surely proof for any customs officer?

That would only prove that someone bought that amount of diesel at such & such a petrol station on that date at that time.

[VERY OLD DISCO]

Half the bloody Land Rovers in Shropshire have run on cherry at sometime in their life, it's legal if it's off road so how do the Customs and Excise allow for this? the red must be in the system regardless of how much white diesel is run through. So do they prosecute for the LEGAL use of cherry off road, even though the vehicle is now running on normal diesel? No they don't, if they find red diesel in any concentration in your tank they will prosecute. They may check your tank and your exhaust soot for tracers showing the use of cherry, but will need to prove that cherry HAS or IS being used on the road. Not easy to do?

By the way you can use up to 2000 litres of vegetable oil per annum quite legally now, no tax no prosecution nothing.

Geoff

[VERY OLD DISCO]

The British forces in Iraq use Kerosene (Avaiation fuel) free of charge from the good old US of A in all the Land Rovers over there.

The problem is lubrication of the injectors and pumps, I belive they add something to deal with this.

It is unlikely that your engine is damaged in any way by running it on some sort of other fuel, if it was a very high performance turbo then there might be problems, but a N/A diesel will run on a wide range of fuels without problems.

G

[Les Henson]

If you're on the road and they dip your tank/take an exhaust sample - you're nicked unless your vehicle is classed as agricultural.

Les.

[land rover newbie]

No the car is not on the road yet so no worries there.

Does anyone know how to adjust the pump timing???

[Tonk]

theres some bolts (3?) which hold the distribution pump, slacken these off and rotate, i cant remember which way is advance or retard though.

[sotal]

Mine was smoking a little, slackened the three bolts out, then used a big wrench to turn it anti-clockwise a bit. Bit of trial and error but it was hard to turn due to the pipes holding it in place.

[land rover newbie]

Mine was smoking a little, slackened the three bolts out, then used a big wrench to turn it anti-clockwise a bit. Bit of trial and error but it was hard to turn due to the pipes holding it in place.

Thats how i thought it was done but as you say it was hard to move.

Is it best to lossen the pipes and will the engine still run?

[sotal]

I switched the engine off first, then just slackened the three bolts (or they might have been nuts - I don't think I had to remove them just slacken them a bit)

Then got some big Stilsons, and turned it, it was a bugger to move but it did go, then got someone else to tighten the bolts whilst I held it.

Then started up.

See how well it starts combined with how much smoke etc, ours was quite smokey before espicially when sitting on idle, now it smokes a bit on startup but then idles with no smoke, general running doesn't put out any smoke but steep banks and heavy acceleration causes a faint greyish brown looking smoke about two foot long out of the exhaust

[jimfoo]

The pipes have to be tight if the engine is running, and you wouldn't want to be around any spraying fuel as it can penetrate your skin and possibly kill you, or at least cause great harm. After the pump is adjusted, shut off the engine, then loosen the lines at the pump to relieve stresses and reduce the chance of cracks forming. Never had a LR Diesel, but on a Bosch VE pump, they are timed with a dial indicator so you know how far you are changing the timing. Timing is fairly critical on a Diesel and I'd rather know where mine is rather than randomly adjusting it here and there.

[sotal]

The pipes have to be tight if the engine is running, and you wouldn't want to be around any spraying fuel as it can penetrate your skin and possibly kill you, or at least cause great harm. After the pump is adjusted, shut off the engine, then loosen the lines at the pump to relieve stresses and reduce the chance of cracks forming. Never had a LR Diesel, but on a Bosch VE pump, they are timed with a dial indicator so you know how far you are changing the timing. Timing is fairly critical on a Diesel and I'd rather know where mine is rather than randomly adjusting it here and there.

One of the bolt has timing marks next to it, so you know how much you have turned it and you can turn it back.

I've never known anyone be able to adjust it by any other method than trial and error.

[jimfoo]

One of the bolt has timing marks next to it, so you know how much you have turned it and you can turn it back.

I've never known anyone be able to adjust it by any other method than trial and error.

Of course it is an LR, so was probably designed to be easier to work on without special tools. At least there are marks. Mine has none, hence the need for the dial indicator to make sure how far you are changing it. On my engine, stock timing was slightly retarded for better emissions, but better power, easier starting and less smoke can be had by advancing it slightly. Of course, like someone already stated, blue smoke is oil, so timing changes probably won't do a lot for it.

[NRS91]

any help for a 2.5 defender n/a in a series 2a?

will not idle even when hand throttle on half (or was if full?)

any suggestions warmly needed as "Wild Thing" isnt reali wild when you stall it going for 2nd haha

[RAF-mechanic]

The British forces in Iraq use Kerosene (Avaiation fuel) free of charge from the good old US of A in all the Land Rovers over there.

The problem is lubrication of the injectors and pumps, I belive they add something to deal with this.

It is unlikely that your engine is damaged in any way by running it on some sort of other fuel, if it was a very high performance turbo then there might be problems, but a N/A diesel will run on a wide range of fuels without problems.

G

We use stuff called Avtur (aviation fuel) which can be mixed with a lubricating oil to give the fuel its lubricating properties back. It can be used as a 50/50 mix with diesel too but not advised in anything worth much value.

Just thought id let you know...