Hazard Switch & Indicators - fault diagnosis

[Chambo110]

The flasher unit ?? Is that the relay ? Sorry electrics not my strongest point.

if so it is fairly new anyway. I put new lights everywhere and the indicators came with a new relay

thanks

[Snagger]

Yes, it’s a special type of relay.  Old types use a bimetallic strip that heated up - as the two metals expanded at different rates for the same temperature, it’d cause the bimetallic strip to bend away from the contacts, cutting the circuit, which had the effect of allowing the strip to cool; as it did so, it’d straighten and electrical contact was made again, allowing the lights to illuminate, but again heating the strip and bending it.  That’s why they made the tick-rock noise.  Modern units are usually electronic.

[ElectricDogs]

This must be the longest living thread on the forum! It's also my first post....

I *think* I read everything to ensure that my question isn't answered but it's possible that I missed something relevant due to my ignorance. My issue is with a 2.8i (1999, I think 300i in terms of electrics), the hazards and indicators all work, the only thing is that the indicators don't flash on the instrument panel when I use the hazards. The trailer light flashes fine and the indicator light (single indicator on instrument panel) works fine when using the indicators from the stalk.

All the wiring at the hazard switch seems fine and I tried a new switch for good measure. Do I need to take off the instrument panel and start fishing around for loose/broken wires or is there an easier way to work out what might be wrong?

Marc

 

 

[Michaelc]

Hi guys my problem is intermittent and has just cost my MOT failed on drivers side tell tail light indicator on dash thinking just replace bulb strips down dash led bulb cant do anything with rebuilt few sprays wd40 rebuild working 5/10 minutes all good then problem again no tell tail lamp reading everything I can online nothing i can see 2002 freelander 1.8

 

[Maxime]

Hi I have a question concerning the explanation here. 

For the cable on the connector on the side "Black(red) - indicator supply" where does this cable go? 

same for the "tell tale cable" in the connector block? In my car these aren't connected and I was wondering where I had to connect these underneat the dashboard. 

[western]

the black red connects to one side of the hazard light switch, it feeds the built in red light that flashes with all indicators when hazards are on. 

[Paul butfustet]

Wow, many thanks. I will check this out tomorrow. Really appreciate it.

[Paul butfustet]

Many thanks for your step by step guide. I now understand a lot more how this works. It turned out to be a bad hazz switch, which was new 6 months ago. The turn signal pin in the switch was dead with Ign on and indicator on (one of the three pins). When I put the tester probe across to one of the other 2 pins they worked, even the tell tale light. I ordered an Allmakes £11. Last one was £5. Finally, today, everything electrical actually working. Loom taped up, plastic conduit and retaining clips. Many thanks again.

[knightshade]

On 3/30/2017 at 10:41 AM, western said:

on pre td5 vehicles with 1 indicator light on the dash, it is connected to left & right circuits, so when indicating left [live side] the opposite wiring becomes the earth [ground] path so the bulb flashes as expected & does the same when right indication is used, no doides in the indicators system, on Td5 defenders onwards there are seperate lights [led on td5] for left & right indicator circuits.

 

the above single dash light causes problems when owners fit led indicators to the vehicle, as the led use a lot less current to function & the amp draw doesn't work the dash light correctly. 

My hats off to you. Thank you a million. I spent 3 whole days trying to figure out why my directionals all flash when the turn signal is operated. I tried everything but no luck. It was enough to bring a tear to a glass eye I,m here to tell you. I was ready to look for some kind of diode until I saw your post. I,m working on a 1989 defender which was retro fitted with LED lights. You were spot on. I cut and taped the green and white and the green and red wires on the dash indicator light. After 3 days in the Arizona sun your post saved the day everything works fine. Thanks again and take care.  

.

Edited June 4, 2020 by knightshade

[Lillieandthelandy]

Hi

Im brand new to all of this! And have zero electrical or mechanical knowledge 🙈

When I use my indicator my hazards come on.

I have replaced my hazard switch.

I have also tested the wiring as detailed above using a multimeter, testing from purple to light green and again to green and red and to green and white. All give the same result which is hazards on again.

Can anyone advise what my fault is or what to try next?

In lamon terms please 
 

[Selseymech]

Lillie and the Landie. It could possibly be the indicator stalk short circuit to both sides

[Giles]

(keeping the thread going !)

200tdi defender: recently lost the indicators, with trailer telltale on the dash always on but no hazards or indicators. Cure: the earth in the flasher relay block had wiggled free, once refitted everything worked again....

hth

[Dutchy7]

Landy lovers,

i have an indicator problem. I have a 1990 defender 90 200tdi. I replaced the old bulbs with new LED.  Everything was working fine up until a year ago maybe. It’s been on and off. My left indicator sometimes right don’t want to turn on. I have replaced the column switch three times. It will come on and off with anger or love, depends on the day. To me it seems the switch isn’t connecting. The hazards come on and the indicators remember what they are suppose to do all of a sudden. I don’t know where to find the earths if that is even the issue. When they do decide to work it so times seems like they have to think about it. I also messed with the neck where it clicks the indicators off when you turn. Thinking that was somehow the cause. I’m not familiar at all how to use a multimeter but can figure things out quickly. Any help would be appreciated. These write ups are the best I have seen in any forum and excited for the info. 
 

Also note that my horn stopped working as well. Spotty at best but lately not even engaging. But I think I figured out the problem from the outstanding thread of detail. New hazard switch ??? 
 

cheers,

Dan 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Dutchy7

[C18RCH]

Sounds like a bad earth in the dash to me. 
 

the horn and indicator share a common earth off the indicator stalk. I would start there. Chances are it just needs a clean up with a wire brush. 

[UKDefender]

I was so worried today that I made a messed up something that cause my blinkers to stop working during my dash removal. Thanks to this post, I was able to find out why!

Amazing post!!! Thanks a ton!!

 

https://www.instagram.com/ukdefender/

[Arbitrary Arborist]

On 4/12/2008 at 10:53 PM, LandyManLuke said:

I wrote this for another forum, I thought it might be useful here too.

The hazard switch and indicators often cause problems in defenders, most commonly the indicators stop working, but the fault is actually with the hazard light switch.

This post aims to explain how the hazard switch works, why it's malfunction stops the indicators working, and how to test for and diagnose the fault.

To get to the back of the hazard switch, remove the two screws and pull the switch panel out. you'll then see this.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120013.JPG

The multi plug has 7 wires going into it, there's also the Black (red trace) and Black wires, which are connected directly to the switch body. these are for the indicator in the switch itself.

Black(red) - indicator supply

Black - earth

Remove the multiplug, you will then see the two sets of pins, x3 and x4, top and bottom (as viewed in the photo, not as mounted in the dash).

The top set are concerned with powering the flasher unit, the bottom set dictate what the flasher unit actually lights.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120015.JPG

This picture shows the 4 wires that connect to the bottom set of pins

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120018.JPG

And this picture shows the 3 wires that connect to the top

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120020.JPG

To make things easier to see, here is a schematic of the switch.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/switch.jpg

With the Hazard switch in the 'off' position

'Suppy to flasher' is connected to 'Light switch supply' - which comes on with the second click of the ignition switch

With the Hazard switch in the 'on' position

'Suppy to flasher' is connected to 'Permanent Supply' - 12vDC

*Flash* is connected to 'Left Indicators', 'Right Indicators', and the 'Switch tell-tale'

What this means is, if the switch is faulty, the flasher unit doesn't get a power supply, so it can't flash the indicators via the indicator switch on the column.

You can test the switch using a multimeter (continuity or resistance), or test lamp. You can also test the vehicle wiring as follows.

You will need a fused piece of wire (or test lamp), you don't want to risk a dead short if you get it wrong.

This is what i made to test the wiring, the lowest value fuse i had was 5A.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120024.JPG

If you link 'permanent supply' (purple) to 'Left indicators' or 'Right indicators' the indicators on that side should light, constantly though, not flashing. this proves the bulb wiring is ok and you have supply to the loom plug.

If you link 'permanent supply' (purple) to 'supply to flasher' (light geen), the indicator stalk switch should work the indicators as normal (flashing). The indicator switch is connecting *flash* to 'Left Indicator' or 'Right Indicator' - the wiring is duplicated at the stalk switch. If you want to make a seperate link wire you can replicate the stalk switch action at the loom plug as well.

You can repeat the two tests above, using 'Light switch supply' instead of 'permanent supply', the ignition switch will need to be on the second click.

'Switch tell-tale' is the live supply to the bulb in the switch housing, it is grounded by the seperate black wire connected to the switch body.

I can't open any of the JPG files shown here, can anyone help?

[western]

Hoperfully these are in order with the above original post 

[Chubby M]

On 4/12/2008 at 10:53 PM, LandyManLuke said:

I wrote this for another forum, I thought it might be useful here too.

The hazard switch and indicators often cause problems in defenders, most commonly the indicators stop working, but the fault is actually with the hazard light switch.

This post aims to explain how the hazard switch works, why it's malfunction stops the indicators working, and how to test for and diagnose the fault.

To get to the back of the hazard switch, remove the two screws and pull the switch panel out. you'll then see this.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120013.JPG

The multi plug has 7 wires going into it, there's also the Black (red trace) and Black wires, which are connected directly to the switch body. these are for the indicator in the switch itself.

Black(red) - indicator supply

Black - earth

Remove the multiplug, you will then see the two sets of pins, x3 and x4, top and bottom (as viewed in the photo, not as mounted in the dash).

The top set are concerned with powering the flasher unit, the bottom set dictate what the flasher unit actually lights.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120015.JPG

This picture shows the 4 wires that connect to the bottom set of pins

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120018.JPG

And this picture shows the 3 wires that connect to the top

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120020.JPG

To make things easier to see, here is a schematic of the switch.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/switch.jpg

With the Hazard switch in the 'off' position

'Suppy to flasher' is connected to 'Light switch supply' - which comes on with the second click of the ignition switch

With the Hazard switch in the 'on' position

'Suppy to flasher' is connected to 'Permanent Supply' - 12vDC

*Flash* is connected to 'Left Indicators', 'Right Indicators', and the 'Switch tell-tale'

What this means is, if the switch is faulty, the flasher unit doesn't get a power supply, so it can't flash the indicators via the indicator switch on the column.

You can test the switch using a multimeter (continuity or resistance), or test lamp. You can also test the vehicle wiring as follows.

You will need a fused piece of wire (or test lamp), you don't want to risk a dead short if you get it wrong.

This is what i made to test the wiring, the lowest value fuse i had was 5A.

http://www.crookesmountain.com/gallery/galleries/Landrover_tech/hazard_switch/P4120024.JPG

If you link 'permanent supply' (purple) to 'Left indicators' or 'Right indicators' the indicators on that side should light, constantly though, not flashing. this proves the bulb wiring is ok and you have supply to the loom plug.

If you link 'permanent supply' (purple) to 'supply to flasher' (light geen), the indicator stalk switch should work the indicators as normal (flashing). The indicator switch is connecting *flash* to 'Left Indicator' or 'Right Indicator' - the wiring is duplicated at the stalk switch. If you want to make a seperate link wire you can replicate the stalk switch action at the loom plug as well.

You can repeat the two tests above, using 'Light switch supply' instead of 'permanent supply', the ignition switch will need to be on the second click.

'Switch tell-tale' is the live supply to the bulb in the switch housing, it is grounded by the seperate black wire connected to the switch body.

@LandyManLuke  I've been struggling for a day on the indicators so thought I'd try and find some help.... And here it is....   Huge thanks to you for taking the time to pen this article, I'm working through it now step my step... 

Again the value of a community, Chubby.

[Chubby M]

On 9/29/2021 at 12:14 PM, Chubby M said:

@LandyManLuke  I've been struggling for a day on the indicators so thought I'd try and find some help.... And here it is....   Huge thanks to you for taking the time to pen this article, I'm working through it now step my step... 

Again the value of a community, Chubby.

Hi all, so a follow on from the extremely helpful thread and a "confirming my conclusion" type question:

I think my hazard switch is faulty because:

• When I remove and bypass the switch and link Perm Supply to Left or Right indicators - they light per side, as expected (no flashing)
• When I remove and bypass the switch and link Perm Supply to Supply to Flasher - the stalk works per side, and I have left or right flashing indicators
• Therefore:  Stalk is ok, loom and loom plug is ok and flasher unit is ok (its a new replacement).
• I then turn on the ignition and bypass the switch replacing the Perm feed for the Light switch supply - both tests repeated and all 100% correct. 

Then, when I connect the switch (its a new one - hours old, replacing the original faulty unit);

• Ignition off, hazards on - 100% fine, all flashing merrily away.
• Ignition on, hazards on - 100% fine
• Ignition on, hazard switch off,  left indicator stalk selected - Not good:  all lights flash (as if hazard switch on)
• ignition on, hazard switch off,  right indicator stalk selected - Not good:  all lights flash as above.

So, I see no other route than the switch, frustrating as its new (not a blue box item).  Is there anything else I may have missed?

Daft question but is there more than one type of hazard switch?  My truck is an 1986 110.  The replacement switch can from AllMakes4x4, ref. YUF101490

On the plus side, While in the spaghetti of wiring I have got all the side, main and ancillary lights working...  thats a massive step forward.  Could finish the build this year (year 7 as my wife reminds me constantly)....

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Chubby

[CDC87]

Hi all, 

I have a very unique issue and no one has figured it out yet. When I switch my hazard lights on my ignition comes on. It overrides the ignition which stops the key from switching the engine off if it’s running.

Two years ago I changed the flasher relay and the Hazard switch so I assumed the problem is elsewhere but having spend all day on it checking connections, earths, fuses, wires Im going to guess it’s the hazard switch again. It has Lucas on the back but can’t remember buying an expensive one 🤔. Any ideas? 

[redcap]

Hi there,

Thanks for an informative article.

1. I recently changed the indicators, tail lights and front side lights on my '95 Defender 110 SW to LED's. Then I had an issue with everything flashing like hazards. To solve that challenge the indicator tell tale lamp on the dashboard was removed. So indicators on LHS work with the left indicator, and the RHS indicators work with the right indicator.
2. At the same time I purchased a new hazard switch to replace a broken switch. Now hazards work, but only when the ignition is switched on, AND if the hazard switch is off, all the indicators lights light up when the left or right indicators are activated.

To summarise:

• Dashboard tell tale light installed and no hazard switch installed - LHS and RHS indicators act like hazard lights.
• Dashboard tell tale light removed and no hazard switch installed - LHS and RHS indicators act as they are intended. Either LHS only or RHS only.
• Dashboard tell tale light removed and new hazard switch off - LHS/RHS indicators act like hazard lights when indicators are activated.
• Dashboard tell tale light removed and new hazard switch on - All indicators light up as they are supposed to.

I am aware that there is a fix for the indicator lights dashboard tell tale light issue, but other than removing the hazard switch permanently, I need a solution for the hazard switch issue.

Does anyone have a solution?

[western]

All indicators flash because the dash lamp & opposite side act as the earth path, so when left is selected the right indicator circuit is the earth path & vice versa, with led using less amps the current draw is less & the circuit doesn't realise that,  option is - - - 

Bolt on bits can sell you a new dash light that cures the fault & returns the dash light operation to normal, 

If you have seperate left & right indicator dash lights only the led flasher unit is needed. 

[GavinD]

1998 Defender, could use some help with the issues Landy is having:

Hazards work until you turn the key in the ignition then they stop working

Left and Right Indicators are not working

Low beam headlights not working, high beams come on when pulling back on the lever

Wipers work on high and low, intermittent not working

I have done the hazard switch test:

Permanent supply to Left Indicator and Right Indicator has positive results

Permanent supply to Supply to Flasher turns on both the Left and Right exterior indicators (with the stalk switch utilized)

Light switch supply to Left Indicator and Right Indicator has positive results

Light switch supply (with ignition switch on) to Supply to Flasher does not work either left or right indicators

Any suggestions would be much appreciated,

Gavin

 

 

[GavinD]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:53 AM, GavinD said:

1998 Defender, could use some help with the issues Landy is having:

Hazards work until you turn the key in the ignition then they stop working

Left and Right Indicators are not working

Low beam headlights not working, high beams come on when pulling back on the lever

Wipers work on high and low, intermittent not working

I have done the hazard switch test:

Permanent supply to Left Indicator and Right Indicator has positive results

Permanent supply to Supply to Flasher turns on both the Left and Right exterior indicators (with the stalk switch utilized)

Light switch supply to Left Indicator and Right Indicator has positive results

Light switch supply (with ignition switch on) to Supply to Flasher does not work either left or right indicators

Any suggestions would be much appreciated,

Gavin

 

 

Removed the dash and found a loose ground in the cluster located below the radio mount, everything works now!

[western]

On 1/13/2020 at 12:22 PM, ElectricDogs said:

This must be the longest living thread on the forum! It's also my first post....

I *think* I read everything to ensure that my question isn't answered but it's possible that I missed something relevant due to my ignorance. My issue is with a 2.8i (1999, I think 300i in terms of electrics), the hazards and indicators all work, the only thing is that the indicators don't flash on the instrument panel when I use the hazards. The trailer light flashes fine and the indicator light (single indicator on instrument panel) works fine when using the indicators from the stalk.

All the wiring at the hazard switch seems fine and I tried a new switch for good measure. Do I need to take off the instrument panel and start fishing around for loose/broken wires or is there an easier way to work out what might be wrong?

Marc

 

 

You should have the red hazard icon on the switch & the green trailer icon flashing, 

If the warning light panel only has a single light with left & right arrows on it then that cannot flash as in normal use when you indocate left the right side indicators become the earth path & vice versa, so if all are flashing when hazards are on the earth path is a different route.