Eke diesel out with veg oil

[Pete Attryde]

just a curiosity question, any one knows if aircraft fuel is ok for diesels?... I know for sure it will run well on it without any smoke, as one I know runs his car on it... but I dont know if it'll harm the engine in the end. I could have an endless supply of the mentioned fuel, pity its all thrown away

I might have run my 300TDI on a 50/50 mix of diesel/ Jet A1 for about 18 months with no problems, and I know of a number of other people who might also have run various manufacturers vehicles on everything from pure Jet A1 to a mix, for many years with no major problems.

However I suggest that you would run the risk of up setting the authorities in this country if you were caught doing it.

The perks of working on a aircraft maintenance base,

[muzaz]

However I suggest that you would run the risk of up setting the authorities in this country if you were caught doing it.

Nah... shouldnt be a problem as long as I dont go for the mot with a tankful of JetA1, it smells a lot...as if youre running a gas turbine instead of a diesel engine.

Its a pity it gets dumped when I could make good use of it, diesel prices here have exceeded that of petrol, so you see my concern!

What bothers me is that it is quite reactive, for example if you pour some of it in a plastic glass (the ones you're served for drinks while flying) it will melt away in a matter of minutes, so I'm afraid it will damage seals in the long run, also i think it has a higher energy value than diesel, could make the engine run hotter??

[Shox Dr]

Hmmm - this is getting a bit too broad, let's stick to the OP's original question

..and leave the politics and wider issues out of it.

I don't see how you can. Lets face it if Fuel was a reasonable price we wouldn't be talking about using "other" Fuels. If in the interests of the forum, you beleive (as you do) it's moving away from the orinal question as a Mod you could open another thread and move the "wider issues" there

[Happyoldgit]

I don't see how you can. Lets face it if Fuel was a reasonable price we wouldn't be talking about using "other" Fuels. If in the interests of the forum, as a Mod you could open another thread and move the "wider issues" there

I could but I won't.

Why not you will doubtless ask.

Well if we permit every question to pull in all the wider issues then we would end up with a debating chamber discussing every subject under the sun. As it is we like to keep this place focused on technical issues concerning Land Rovers, you know - how do I fix this, replace that, improve the other. Nuts and bolts stuff, not politics, world economics, philosophy, who likes milk and who likes plain chocolate.

Ok? Any problems PM me.

[old leafer]

I could but I won't.

Why not you will doubtless ask.

Well if we permit every question to pull in all the wider issues then we would end up with a debating chamber discussing every subject under the sun. As it is we like to keep this place focused on technical issues concerning Land Rovers, you know - how do I fix this, replace that, improve the other. Nuts and bolts stuff, not politics, world economics, philosophy, who likes milk and who likes plain chocolate.

Ok? Any problems PM me.

i like milk chocolate but point taken

[Tris Cocks]

What mix would people reccomend putting in my 300TDi 1998 (of course this is only a hypothetical question, as i would never dream of doing anything illegal )

[reads90]

I know,

How about we invade a middle eastern country with vast oil fields and attempt to have a greater control in the market and prevent increasing prices?

oh wait a minute.....

[letsgetdirty]

What mix would people reccomend putting in my 300TDi 1998 (of course this is only a hypothetical question, as i would never dream of doing anything illegal )

general feeling im getting is a 70/30 mix, seems the best mix and least trouble,im fairly sure they are saying 70 diesel and 30 oil although i have reversed this during the summer and during the winter ran 50/50 which aids start up as oil is harder to heat with the glow plugs.....unusual to meet another tristan with a landy!!! regards tris!!!

[110WestCape]

Jet A1 is made from DPK (dual pupose kerosene) as is IK Iilluminating kerosene or paraffin as we know it. The processes to arrive at Jet fuel is very similar to paraffin but are more stringent in quality and specific additives. Jet fuel is therefore a top grade kerosene that can be used at very high altitudes and very low temp without waxing.

Paraffin or Jet A1 can be used quite successfully at even a 50/50 mix in diesel engines. The authorities do not like this and in many countries it is illegal. In SA there is a tracer dye mixed into krosene to identify spiked diesel. I would presume the same applies in the UK.

Again kerosene is not purpose made to run in diesel engines and will have longer term effects on injectors and seals. The densities and flash points differ between kerosene and diesel where kerosene has a lower density and flash point is lower ...... i.e. ignition qualities are different.

Avgas is a high octane (102) fuel with very tight quality standards ....... if price is the problem with diesel ...... neither Avgas or Jet A1 is the solution. Avgas will certainly not be kind to a diesel engine.

[110WestCape]

something else of interest in the diesel / kerosene arena ...... refineries do often mix dpk into diesel to increase the diesel pool if the economics justify it at that particular point in time. This also depends on the Jet fuel + diesel demand vs production and supply. If it is already mixed to an acceptable level when you buy the diesel it cannot be good for your engine to distort this mix beyond the standards.

Again supply and demand determines the price.

Now I don't have to bore you with the details any further

[TheBeastie]

Having innocently started this thread with a genuine technical query I would have to agree with MOG that it has gone so broad as to now be generally useless from the original intention.

I wanted some clarification and simplifaction of a complex issue.

I think I now have that - namely that it is OK and legal to use SVO up to about 70 SVO: 30 diesel (perhaps go to 50:50 in winter and watch for engine oil stickiness - I didn't ask what to look for and hope it is pretty obvious ) in a 200Tdi without undue difficulty; that rapeseed or sunflower seems to be the best; and that Costco type operations may provide economical bulk buys.

For that information, thank you to everyone. I have started buying SVO.

As for the politics - well, free speech is fine but it does make it much harder to sift through and find the bits of real use.

Best wishes

Malcy

[Mondo]

This Thread has made interesting reading.

It seems whenever it comes to fuel prices, politics will always ooze in to the Topic which is sad.

From a technical point of view this has made for good reading and I will be mixing up a jerrycan of 70/30 diesel/vegoil mix to try on my 300TDi for trial purposes.

If I feel confident I may just use this in the long term as it could save me cicra £12-15 per tank of fuel, as my XD90 has a 50L tank "if" I can source cheapish cooking oil at £.70/L

Thanks for the contributions guys, an excellent Thread indeed and I gained valuable knowledge from it

[110WestCape]

Apologies if my posts on this subject came across as politically motivated or too broad on the economics side. It was certainly not the intention ...... personally I hate politics. I also have no objection if any of my posts are deleted if they offended or annoyed anyone.

Cheers

Wikus

[q-rover]

I think I now have that - namely that it is OK and legal to use SVO up to about 70 SVO: 30 diesel (perhaps go to 50:50 in winter and watch for engine oil stickiness -

Malcy

Have you paid duty on the SVO? If not how can it be legal for use as a fuel

in a vehicle on the public highway?

[Pete Attryde]

Have you paid duty on the SVO? If not how can it be legal for use as a fuel

in a vehicle on the public highway?

This might help answer that.

Table near the top

[JimAttrill]

On the Jet A1 question, the Forces in Germany run all their vehicles except motorbikes on what I presume is Jet A1 aka AVTUR. There was an article in one of the LR comics a while ago showing them refuelling helicopters and trucks from the same rubber bladder thing.

Back in the '70s RAF Germany used AVTAG which was defined as 'wide-cut gasoline', smelt a bit like a mix of petrol and kerosene. We were warned not to try to use it in paraffin stoves because they could explode. But in those days the Bedford RLs and SIIAs were all petrol, with the newly-introduced Bedford MKs running on diesel. AVTAG is, I think, called JP4 by the yanks.

So, in those days, when we went on exercises we had to take three types of fuel with us, plus regular paraffin for the Tilley lamps and stuff.

[manic]

if i use new veg oil can i claim it back as expenses as i run my own bussiness

[letsgetdirty]

if i use new veg oil can i claim it back as expenses as i run my own bussiness

You have to pay the added tax to the government to qualify to get anything back wouldnt you?? And then it would be very expensive

[smo]

Have you paid duty on the SVO? If not how can it be legal for use as a fuel

in a vehicle on the public highway?

2500l personal use allowance these days, so you can use it in any ratio on the road, duty free until you pass that limit, then you pay duty on every drop including the first 2500l

if i use new veg oil can i claim it back as expenses as i run my own business

Yes, just like any other legitimate business expense, you can claim it back to offset it against your earnings thus reducing your tax bill - you'll need receipts to prove the purchase just like with any diesel.

As for the VAT mentioned by letsgetdirty, you'll probably find that Veg oil like most "food" has VAT already added, thus you could claim that back too, but that is different to using it as a business expense as you can only claim the equivalent of what you charge and you need to be VAT registered, for general business expenses its a tax return issue