Helmet for competing

[alan kemp]

For anyone who has to buy a crash helmet for competing (motorcycle helmets will not meet MSA regs), there is a lot of info on the Devon forum.

I have just spoken to Demon Tweeks and they would give a discount if a few of us turn up to try and buy. They have a good stock and differing sizes in the type of helmets we require.

If any one wants to go, I will arrange a group visit for Saturday 14th June (I have to get one in time for Manby). The manager suggests as early as possible as they get mega busy on saturdays. I would set off at 8.00 am.

If you are definately interested post here or to my e-mail and I will sort it out.

Demon Tweeks are in Wrexham, 1-1/4 hours from Manchester.

alankempwets@yahoo.co.uk

[saley]

Yes i am up for that as i think all the competitions will go this way.

Neil may have a say?

[najw]

I think the organisers of the Tay are quite right to assess the risks on their event and put in place whatever precautions they feel are necessary to protect the competitors and themselves as organisers.

However I can't see helmets being enforced across MSA-Sanctioned Challenge events unless as part of a package of measures which would likely include regulation roll cages and harnesses.

It doesn't make sense to me to enforce helmets if you aren't also going to enforce specification rollcages as you are acknowledging a higher than average risk of roll but doing nothing to protect the occupants of the cab should that happen.

Certain examples have been cited as to the need for helmets in a non-rollover situation, including risks to the co-drivers whilst out of the vehicles. Again credit to the organisers for recognising those risks and trying to protect against them, but personally I think it is un-necessary legislation and should be left to the individuals participating to decide.

Having said all of that once you've got an MSA spec helmet you've got it and providing you look after it, it will always be there when you need it.

[marsie]

hopefully having a run over to macclesfield at the weekend to get our shiny new skidlids.Start at about £50 for the bs/msa spec we need for the TFC

Paul

[oddballrovers]

Hi Alan and others in for Helmet purchase.

We have used helmets for some years now, and before we bought them I had some thoughts.

It must be possible somehow to clean them inside in an easy way, we all know that things can get pretty dirty not just mud but also sweaty and so.

( we have found that washing up liquid and a nailbrush do a good job and then on the heater for 24 hours after each event)

The way the helmet straps are tighten must be oki with mud and must be easy to do and undo with dirty and sometimes frosty fingers or gloves on.

It is a good thing if the helmet is easy to build in some kind off intercom, we use some very good but also rather expensive Peltor gear where you can speak both ways at the same time, which has proved to be very good.

As we have not done speed events yet but are to do in the future, we chose a rather cheap bike helmet that was oki with the rules and regs.

And paid a company to build in the Peltor stuff.

For next years speed events we are going to buy the open Peltor helmets.

That was just my 2'pennies

Good luck with the purchase.

Kind regards

Ole.

[Hendrik]

Got the Sparco Pro Jet (open face helmet), pretty light and easy to combine with intercom.

http://www.demon-tweeks.com/products/Produ...code=SPA335LBLK

Instead of the expensive Peltor communication systems, have you had a look at eartec? Full Duplex, not that expensive and tested them in a challenge and worked great!

http://www.eartec.com/Wireless%20Wired/td900wireless.html

rgds

H.

[oddballrovers]

Got the Sparco Pro Jet (open face helmet), pretty light and easy to combine with intercom.

http://www.demon-tweeks.com/products/Produ...code=SPA335LBLK

Instead of the expensive Peltor communication systems, have you had a look at eartec? Full Duplex, not that expensive and tested them in a challenge and worked great!

http://www.eartec.com/Wireless%20Wired/td900wireless.html

rgds

H.

Hi Hendrik

I know these com radios, they are as far as I know not legal in Europe I have investigated in them, I found them almost two years back, it appears that they use the same frequency as mobile phones do in the 900MHZ band.

As far as I do remember I at that time found out that in the US these frequencies are located for this kind off equipment like we have here in Europe 430 something MHz for the same use nut a lot less power is allowed as far as I know.

I know they are very good and cheap, but would not use them, I could be the guy who could not use my mobile phone to call the ambulance because off "jamming" from them..if you get me..

You are right thu they are good I think I found out that the US rock-crawler guys use them alot.

Kind regards

Ole.

[JST]

I'll echo Neils thoughts on the use of them and cages etc. My current requirement is that open topped vehicle occupants must wear a helmet if competing in a 'series event', other than that i can't see my insurance group currently changing their requirements regarding the use of helmets in hardtop or caged vehicles.

Although i do think they are a bloody good idea for driver and codriver alike.

[D9OSV]

I personally feel that events are being pushed along so fast, and that organisers are having to make sections so tough, that helmets should be complusory, Period.

I have competed in challenges wearing helmets for more years than i care to remember, and it is not a problem.

I forgot my helmet this year at this years Ultimate and felt naked without it.

Having seen the severity of the sites and sections being set up recently, i hope that ALL organisers bring in helmets as complusory items sooner, rather than later before someone DOES get hurt.

Some teams won't like it, well it is simple, DON'T RACE.

Jim

[Boothy]

On the same theme would it not make sense to introduce (as some clubs/regs do) a logbooked or recognised cage built constructed and welded to a standard, and not something that has been styled to suit out of whatever was available, which I'm sure we have all seen,

and recognise the use of a full safety recognised safety harness and not a standard seatbelt or lapbelt which allows drivers to half hang out of the window whilst competing?

[jules]

This is a £50 helmet which I used to use when I first started racing

These are the kite marks on my current helmet

When buying a crash helmet all I could think was that I only have one head the peltor intercom is very good and totally clear so you can hear everything said and the car noise is mostly blotted out.

for challenging would the bike blue-tooth system could be worth a look or like on the aus videos you see them with a radio taped to the side of the helmet I admit it looks a little heath Robinson but affective none the less

[najw]

On the same theme would it not make sense to introduce (as some clubs/regs do) a logbooked or recognised cage built constructed and welded to a standard,

That would be the can of worms you DON'T want to open.

The only recognised cage spec is the MSA's and I would wager that 95% of trucks currently competing would not comply.

It would be interesting to have a closer look at Cowm and see if there are ANY that would!!

[jules]

That would be the can of worms you DON'T want to open.

The only recognised cage spec is the MSA's and I would wager that 95% of trucks currently competing would not comply.

It would be interesting to have a closer look at Cowm and see if there are ANY that would!!

But if the events are leading towards speed then the regs currently used by the comp safari boys should be looked at possibly maybe.

I'm still surprised the Challenge comp cars don't use the comp safari as speed practise and the racing regs can't be that hard to meet.

[Boothy]

Yep exactly the point I'm trying to make Neil,

My motor has a current MSA logbook and a Tag on the cage and what a pain in the rear it can be and was to get it.

[reads90]

That would be the can of worms you DON'T want to open.

The only recognised cage spec is the MSA's and I would wager that 95% of trucks currently competing would not comply.

95% of the trucks would not pass being road legal anyway but hey that a totally differant can of worms

Can quite understand in this day and age of heath and safty as why helmets are not used in winch challenge already . After all they are around the rest of the world

[jules]

Can quite understand in this day and age of heath and safety as why helmets are not used in winch challenge already . After all they are around the rest of the world

Yes and no

Hats are a good thing but I have raced in hats for nearly ten years so its second nature for me to get in a racer and put a helmet on but I can see why if your not used to it people will be reluctant because they can be heavy and restrictive. Having said that I wouldn't want any more than a cheap crash helmet for challenging as the mud and scraps it would get is not practical and just wasteful doing in a £400 peltor or sparco helmet

My challenge truck (although now as a challenger would be 3 yrs out of date) had a comp safari spec cage built to me requirements only because Stunning services built it and he a comp safari specialist but a lot (not all) of the cages you see are built with a the same thing in mind which is strength so a good scrutineer will see that. I would assume.. and I have competed and won class championships at club and national level

I have never needed to have a cage stamped or MSA log book for my four compsafari race cars or the Challenge truck as I don't take them Rallying

I only say that because I have never been asked for one in my ten years of racing

Oh and sorry to start taking it on a tangent.

[D9OSV]

Having said that I wouldn't want any more than a cheap crash helmet for challenging as the mud and scraps it would get is not practical and just wasteful doing in a £400 peltor or sparco helmet

Agreed. I think a B standard helmet is more than enough.

I also agree with you that cages should have some regulation, but on this i am as guilty as the rest and built mine to my spec rather than a motor sport formula as i knew there was no governing body.

Is there anybody againist crash helmets?

Jim

[Steve Hiatt]

Scrutineers are not qualified (as a requirement of office) or equiped to decided whether a roll cage 'is up to the job', just whether it complies with whatever regulations are in force.

As Neil says, can of worms

[jules]

Scrutineers are not qualified (as a requirement of office) or equiped to decided whether a roll cage 'is up to the job', just whether it complies with whatever regulations are in force.

As Neil says, can of worms

I should have said that the SCOR scrutineen built some of my cages for my Hibred racer and the challenge truck but I had SD comp safari Range Rover cage and and Robo was consulting while SD were bulding the comp safari Freelanders cages.

[alan kemp]

I am not against helmets but I am against full harness's. We dont race and rarely get above 15 mph. At Manby last year, the "race" sections were quite slow, Pete reconed on 9mph reading his sat nav. I dare say Jim went a bit faster on the odd bit though . A full harness is too restricting for what we do. I have had a few rolls and 2 end over end, quite serious rolls, all with a normal seat belt and I was amazed how well they work and hold you in. I bust a couple of ribs on one but a full harness would not have made any difference as is was landing on its side that caused the injury.

If a cage is well made and out of the correct material, I think most of our cages are sufficient for what we do. In my opinion, too much regulation will ruin the game and see a lot of people drop out...

[Milemarker Type S]

I would have no problem with wearing a helmet if the rules stated that I needed one... Are there any stats in existance in relation to injuries sustained in Challenge events- would be interesting to see how many head injuries etc have actually been sustained and how (driver error etc.)

On the subject of cages... I think you would find that challenge events would die a quick death if we suddenly all needed MSA spec cages- just how many of the truck currently competing have them?- and how many of those that dont could afford to bring them up to spec? I can't even afford a cheap and cheerful cage at the moment

IMHO cages don't need to be OTT for challenge events- IF the organsers are sensible about punch placement and any speed sections... you obviously also have to drive sensibly and know your limits as well though.

[Chris Pedlar]

One thing I would say to anyone about to go down the road of fitting a cage,

It would seem sensible to do the job properly now if you can afford it and would also give you the peace of mind that should things go that way you don't have to start all over.

The other thing to bear in mind is to at least have your main hoop up to spec, the rest although very usefull in additional protection for the occupants in alot of cases in our sport is being fitted to protect the vehicle structure in minor rolls and in fending off trees and the like which is another subject again. This is only my view and I don't claim to be any sort of expert on cages and their construction.

Is it that we are setting the course to be tougher to test competitors, or is it that we have a limited number of sites and the only way to provide something new is to use what previously would have been considered as too dangerous?

Vehicle development will always adapt to the conditions and severity that are presented. As organisers we don't always know the abilities of all our competitors as new faces are appearing all the time. What can be safely achieved by one team could be potentially dangerous for the next!

Helmets are in simplistic form just PPE, as is a roll cage at a slightly different level. Do we want to try to protect people from danger by wrapping them in cotton wool or change the way we set up events removing some of the danger but testing the teams in other ways.

Don't get me wrong, the danger element is part of the sport that we all enjoy, but is it always sufficiently controlled?

One things for sure, if we don't prevent the accident from happening it could effect our sport in ways we may not be able to control. The bomb is ticking!

[D9OSV]

IMHO cages don't need to be OTT for challenge events- IF the organsers are sensible about punch placement and any speed sections... you obviously also have to drive sensibly and know your limits as well though.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, but not the way you thought.

Some people do know there limits and also know that they have to pass those to be able to beat some people.

That is when they take the 'Risk' and that is when crash helmets and cages come in to effect.

The questions about head injuries? I have banged, bumped and cut my head on numerous occasions when eventing and strongly feel that crash helmets will stop this.

After a two day event without a helemt my neck is sore from bracing as i try to stop my head hitting the side panels of my vehicle.

When i compete with a helmet this problem dissapears as i don't worry about it, thus no sore neck.

Speed always comes into it, as Alan says at Manby last year many cars did not get over 15mph, but some of us did and many more will in the future as people get faster and faster vehicles.

I am againist the speed bans, but i again also understand why they exist and support them fully until a clearer way forward is found.

Jim

[white90]

Jim banging the helmet isn't really a good idea anyhow, motorcycle helmets if dropped are recommended to be replaced.

you'll get a feeling of false security I think any car without a roof ie TC/HT running just canvas would be advised to wear a helmet to save them from intrusion.

To many regulations will see the sport off down the road of the few who can afford everything, including trailers etc to tow the comp cars around.

[Chris Pedlar]

Speed is what will be the main cause of most accidents but it can be controlled with sensible use of section rules and layout. It is an integral tool which can be used to keep pressure on teams and enhance the fun factor, but not having to be the main element that brings the highest score.