Rob Butler Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well... didn't make it to Walse today for round 4... Wasn't 100% happy with the truck, had a problem with a cracked rad, n' couldn't get it sorted properly before this weekend... Bugger... Anywho... Just been looking through this months AWDC mag, reading the XTC write up... (Nice write up by the way Neil) B) .... But whilst reading I couldn't help but wonder WHEN IS THE NEXT ONE!!!! I'm sure that a lot've other folks'd get their ass in gear and get out there now they have seen what it's all about... Anyone? Rob B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Well... didn't make it to Walse today for round 4... Wasn't 100% happy with the truck, had a problem with a cracked rad, n' couldn't get it sorted properly before this weekend... Bugger... Anywho... Just been looking through this months AWDC mag, reading the XTC write up... (Nice write up by the way Neil) B) .... But whilst reading I couldn't help but wonder WHEN IS THE NEXT ONE!!!! I'm sure that a lot've other folks'd get their ass in gear and get out there now they have seen what it's all about... Anyone? Rob B) Finger's cross it won't be too soon - I've still got a bit of work to do on the car.... I feel it would be a waste to have 450 bhp and not stretch it's legs a little so I will certainly make an appearance at the first XTC after I've cobbled it together B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_s Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think Neil has a date in mind but can't remember when... Wait til monday, he'll let you know I'm sure! Sorry to hear you can't make it to Corwen Rob, nor can I, what with being in Maine and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted June 6, 2009 Author Share Posted June 6, 2009 You've already missed the first XTC event?... Itching to go for the 2nd one now! Cheers Si... REALLY glad to hear there is plans for a 2nd event... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 You've already missed the first XTC event?... Itching to go for the 2nd one now! Cheers Si... REALLY glad to hear there is plans for a 2nd event... Rob :lol: I'm hoping it (the car) will be worth the wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublej Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 im deff, building for this......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Lloyd Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 We'll be there again loved round 1 B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyb Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 whats the format ? I would hazard a guess but probably easier to ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 whats the format ? I would hazard a guess but probably easier to ask? 20 gates over several kms and the aim is to get through them as fast as possible. Route between the gates is open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan kemp Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 After Manby, the car is definately sorted for this type of event. I will be on the next one, dates permitting. Just need to learn to drive faster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Al, not finished the Tomcat yet???? That'd be perfect for this sort of thing. BTW, our 'favourate' supplier still owes me over half of my order (and the more useful half too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 It is our intention to commit to a series of 4 XTC events in 2010 (there won't be another this year) however we are wondering about whether to tweak the format slightly. The initial test event was run as a point to point with 8 laps required during the day. Those that finished the event will probably agree that it was pretty 'full-on' to get the runs in in time and there was no time to hang around. In addition it required heavy marshal content to man the gates and finding 4 suitable sites would be tough. Then there is the issue of it being a speed event and so requiring compliant cages, harnesses, helmets, licenses etc, were these the reason that we only had four entries in the end? One piece of feedback from Manby last weekend was that the drivers seemed to like the slightly more relaxed pace and being able to see others in action was a good thing. So putting all these factors in place would we be better off running the events as a Time Trial format? Constraints would be: only one vehicle in a section at a time (so no head to head racing), length limitation on sections (320m each) Pros would be: fewer marshals required (one per section) vehicles do not need to have all the safety constraints of a speed event, in fact the minimum requirements is a roll hoop only. With 10 sections averaging 300m each you would still be looking a 3km total course and a set number of attempts at each section required during the day, so there would still be plenty of value for money but the opportunity to stand back and watch others attempt a section if you wanted. Any thoughts from those that took part this year, wanted to take part but didn't or plan to in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobbymogs Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 My self and Nath were up for the XTC but as you mentioned we had to alter the cage and tbh i didnt have the time, one thing that come from Dave @ Cheviot was that every nut and bolt was loose even stuff that you have to use a impact gun on to normally take off so i am a little cautious about that but you dnt know until you try but the format from Manby was pretty good and enjoyable the sections were a good mix and the way it was run was also good although day 1 was a bit of a shambles with the marshals sticking with the teams and not with the sections and we were finding that there was different ways of reading the sections so personally i would like to see one marshal stayed on that section at all times if there were more events like that we would deffo be interested 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Neil, I think it sounds like a good idea what you've planned. 320m is still a reasonable distance to allow you to get up some speed! It also sounds like it'll be a more sociable type of event which is also nice. The other thing that could be interesting is that it would make a much more 'spectator friendly' event than anything else that's been tried: it will be easy to follow and action packed! Personally I think that's a good thing for the growth of the sport. Nobby, I've discovered what you mention from friends who do a lot of rallying. Their solution is lots of loctite and locking wire and, if it still rattles, cut it off as it can't be doing much for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't be to keen on a Time Trial event... I'd say a 3/5km course is ideal... just like the first xtc event, but with the check points much harder to get through, put them on big rock piles, verticle ledges and stuff like that... then the driver has the choice of winching, or going at it flat out... Now that would make a good spectator sport... I think then people would start building their vehicles more like US rock racers, light, oober tough, loads of power, hydro steering, big tyres etc... One thing I REALLY hate, is standing around all day like at a trials event... that sucks balls, that is why I only do challenge events... it's flat our all day from 10-4... but carp for spectators... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 2, 2009 Author Share Posted July 2, 2009 Just a thought... What about calling it an "endurance" event?... what regs would that fall in to then? There must be some loop hole that allowes us to go fast without the need for an MSA spec cage... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 yes its possibly a lot of money to adapt a cage to the regs... but its for your safety, and others around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 The cost of it isn't the problem.... It's the fact that the book pretty much determines what your vehicle will end up being shaped like... The book was drawn up back in the stone age when peaple were reallly only using L/R's for off road I guess.... Where as these days, there is a lot more potential to build lighter faster stronger vehicles, but the book just won't allow it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 The cost of it isn't the problem.... It's the fact that the book pretty much determines what your vehicle will end up being shaped like... The book was drawn up back in the stone age when peaple were reallly only using L/R's for off road I guess....Where as these days, there is a lot more potential to build lighter faster stronger vehicles, but the book just won't allow it... Really???? I'd have said it was the other way round - the book will allow much light, faster vehicles to be made but the basic Land Rover design won't..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 when I say "Where as these days, there is a lot more potential to build lighter faster stronger vehicles, but the book just won't allow it..." I kinda meant, the book won't allow me to race my rear engined moon buggy without it being MSA certified... It would be awesome to be able to build space frame vehicles for this without the need for getting them certified... Kinda like the XRRA and KOH, as far as I know they do not have to be certified by a governing body like our MSA, it is down to the scrut’s to decide... I know that's the US, but it's just food for thought... I'm building a rear engine'd moon buggy challenge vehicle at the moment, but I know there isn't a hope in hell of being able to use it for "Racing" under MSA regs... as the design is very unconventional... not how the book says... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 My own 2p (as someone who wants to have a go at these in future) is that 300yd stages would be naff, for a bit of speed you really need a course of a km or more as has been said. I also think that needing an MSA cage is going to put a load of people off - unless you built the truck specifically for this, the chances are most people have a pretty decent cage that will keep them alive but that would fail MSA regs on a technicality. I'm fairly sure I couldn't get an MSA-spec cage into my truck without b*ggering up everything else I need it to do (EG carry people & things in the back). If people want to tear round with only a roll hoop then fine, they've signed the disclaimer, let them get on with it. As I understand it this is about going quickly over proper terrain rather than comp safari million-miles-an-hour on terrain that is one or two levels up from a rally stage. Nobby - Nice smooth UK roads and slow off-roading will do that, invest in loctite and a bigger breaker bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 I find the XTC thing really funny. People do challenges but want to go fast. The obvious answer is to go comp safari, but your car needs to be MSA spec, which is dificult (although I have read the regs, and its not that difficult, nor expensive). So they think go XTC, but since it is a speed event, you need your car to be MSA spec. So noone enters. Then we talk, and talk more. we tried inventing different names for it, but insurance says: it is a speed event, you need MSA spec. So unless people change and read the book BEFORE they build a roll cage, nothing will change. More to the point, if people do start reading rules, they might decide that comp safari is a much better bet, because you can just drive fast, without worrying about stopping for an efing punch, waiting for the co driver to stamp the card and get back in the car to do another 50 m of driving fast. My 2p, from a complete outsider and XTC novice. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 Comp Safari is totally different to what they are trying to do with XTC, there aren't rock piles, vertical faces, fallen trees and stuff like that across a whole comp safari course... But that is what makes it such an awesome concept, and so competitive, making for a great spectator sport also... It'd be awesome to see the UK producing US style Rock Racers for this type of thing... because in my opinion, they are the type of vehicle that would be perfect for this format... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Comp Safari is totally different to what they are trying to do with XTC, there aren't rock piles, vertical faces, fallen trees and stuff like that across a whole comp safari course... But that is what makes it such an awesome concept, and so competitive, making for a great spectator sport also...It'd be awesome to see the UK producing US style Rock Racers for this type of thing... because in my opinion, they are the type of vehicle that would be perfect for this format... Rob I understand all that, but are you telling me that any old cage is accepted in us style rock racing? I doubt it very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Butler Posted July 10, 2009 Author Share Posted July 10, 2009 no I didn't say that at all... I said as far as I know it is down to the scrut's to decide... there is no requirement for the chassis to be Certificated... My buggy that I am building, as shown below... just for starters, it does not have an A & B pilar "hoop" as such... that alone as far as I know is enough to rule it out of "racing" under MSA regs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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