Michele Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Hey, I'm in touch with David @ M&D and I'm working on a group buy for the VGT kit for the 300 Tdi, all the bits needed for a painless/bolt on installation. I got a first kit for a mate who's been the guinea pig and it works amazingly, best kit around!!! I'm going to order mine before Christmas (and before the VAT rises to 17% as I heard?True??), so if you want to improve the performance of your 300 the time is right...group buy. Official price is £1245, I should get 10% discount on top of it, plus freight and VAT. I hope to make a 5 kits group buy. Fancy one? If interested, PM or mail me (see my profile). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Very nice Unfortunately a bit spendy for me VAT is to go back to 17.5% on Jan the 1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 I know but I think it's good value though...it comes with all the bits...I plan to keep my 90 for good and this thing makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 More info / power and torque curves before vs after? Sounds like a damn good idea if it addresses the low down weakness of the standard Tdi. Not sure I can justify it at the moment but......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 PERFORMANCE Standard Vehicle Stage 1 Maximum power :- 111 bhp @ 4,000 rpm 117 bhp @ 4,000 rpm Maximum torque :- 195 lbf ft @ 1,800 rpm 224 lbf ft @ 1,400 rpm KIT SPECIFICATIONS Stage 1 1. New VNT turbocharger fitted to new exhaust manifold. 2. New oil feed and drain connections for turbocharger. 3. New pipes and hoses to connect turbo to standard inter-cooler and air cleaner. 4. New front exhaust pipe with stainless steel flexible connection. Add a better intercooler and it goes even better AFAIK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 For 1200quid i'd be fitting a TD5... I also dont see what it can gain you over a tweaked standard turbo other than a slightly earlier spool up. But if your trying to accellerate without being over the boost threshold and complaining about it then you cant drive... Peak power (and therefore peak accelleration) comes at around 4000rpm, the standard IP and injectors are only good for about 150hp ish before your EGTs start getting out of control, and the stock turbo with the boost turned up can easily deliver enough air for 150hp. Seems a lot of money to move the boost threshold down by 500rpm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Michele: thanks for that 224lb ft at 1400rpm sounds good to me Aragon: I think that is up to the individual and frankly I do not need you to tell me what I can or cannot do or whether I can drive or not and much less what I might want. If you knew anything about the ideal characteristics for an off-road engine, which evidently you do not, then you would know that the main weakness of a Tdi is off-boost torque and in many off road situations it is far from ideal to have to chug around with 2000rpm on the clock just to be in the torque band. Equally, if you have to back off the revs a bit on a hill on road for whatever reason, the need to often then change down where a Puma will pull away with ease from around 1500rpm gets very tiresome. If the 110 was my daily driver I'd spend the money like a shot to get away from that, the only reason I am giving it a second thought is that I don't use it every day or even every week sometimes. Show me a person who regularly drives around a Tdi at 4000rpm and I'll show you somebody that a) probably can't drive, b) will need new eardrums and c) is probably going to need a new engine sooner rather than later!! And for the record I wouldn't fit a Td5 if you gave me one for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Thanks Michele and BM for informative replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 other than a slightly earlier spool up. (...) Peak power (and therefore peak accelleration)............ It's all about torque, not acceleration. I can drive my 300 almost on tickover, 1400rpm sounds good enough to me before parking the 90 and borrow my father's Landini, 65hp and all the torque on tap from what...1 rpm??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I'm not suggesting you drive around everywhere at 4000rpm, but if you require 50hp from the engine to pull the vehicle up a hill, then you should be in the correct gear to allow the engine to provide 50hp. Doesnt matter if its a TDi or a 7L V8, you learn the characteristics of the engine and drive accordingly. Its a turbocharged engine, that means it only makes power when the turbo is actually producing boost. If the turbo doesnt start producing boost until 2000rpm, and you want power, you should be above 2000rpm. All fitting the VGT does is moves the boost threshold. You still need to be above that threshold for it to do anything, and all you've done is moved it down by 500rpm. Plant the boot at 1200rpm? Nothing will happen. If backing off slightly on a hill means you have no power when you get back on it again, you were most likely in the wrong gear to start with, as knowing your on a hill and driving a TDi, you shouldnt be letting the revs drop below the boost threshold anyway. A good driver would recognise the RPM's are too low and downshift before it becomes an issue. Given that you know the traits of the engine, you shouldnt be trying to drive around at 925rpm or haul it up a hill in 5th gear at 1500rpm, because as you've just pointed out, it doesnt work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Aragon: I think that is up to the individual and frankly I do not need you to tell me what I can or cannot do or whether I can drive or not and much less what I might want. If you knew anything about the ideal characteristics for an off-road engine, which evidently you do not, then you would know that the main weakness of a Tdi is off-boost torque and in many off road situations it is far from ideal to have to chug around with 2000rpm on the clock just to be in the torque band. Equally, if you have to back off the revs a bit on a hill on road for whatever reason, the need to often then change down where a Puma will pull away with ease from around 1500rpm gets very tiresome. If the 110 was my daily driver I'd spend the money like a shot to get away from that, the only reason I am giving it a second thought is that I don't use it every day or even every week sometimes. Show me a person who regularly drives around a Tdi at 4000rpm and I'll show you somebody that a) probably can't drive, b) will need new eardrums and c) is probably going to need a new engine sooner rather than later!! And for the record I wouldn't fit a Td5 if you gave me one for nothing. well said that man It is a worthwhile conversion if liek me you haven't turned the fuel up. I keep good economoy and have better performance than tweaked Tdi's. It is expensive granted, but I got mine for seet FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I ... oh I can't be bothered Lesson two: this is an egg Does anybody know how to suck one? Only my granny was asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hey! This thread is dedicated to egg suckers 300 Tdi owners who want a better turbo. Don't suck eggs, get a kit. Seriously, let's not argue here, leave the thread clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I ... oh I can't be bothered Lesson two: this is an egg Does anybody know how to suck one? Only my granny was asking. :rofl: Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm sure the cost of this turbo kit is less than Nige's annual spark plug bill and therefore represents good value for money Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm sure the cost of this turbo kit is less than Nige's annual spark plug bill and therefore represents good value for money Mo ^^ Mo Thats unkind, poss true...but unkind Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Gentlemen, simply, you can never have too much power (or torque) - you can only USE too much. What this kit crucially seems to do is increase the size of the powerband making it potentially very worthwhile. The figures do seem a little low but a bit of extra tweeking to the fuel pump should soon see to that. As for Aragon's comments - can you please come and give me a lesson as you are clearly a driving God??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 this has to be the most amusing tread i have read (apart from the k**b that welded with crown wheel and pinion together and thought that was how you weld a diff.) anyway does anyone know anythink about fitting to 200tdi? i know my turbo is in wrong place for the discovery and 300tdi turbo. but the manifold will correct that. i do fair bit of towing with livestock tailer somtime my 200tdi with 1:222 box really does know about it. having abit more torque at lower revs sounds like it will help.. cheers sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It should improve a 200tdi in just the same way as a 300tdi. You'll need to swap the inlet manifold, fiddle with the pipework and exhaust routing, and perhaps some of the anciliaries to get a 300tdi turbo onto a defender 200tdi motor though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 real life experience of using this kit shows that it does help towing, you gain full boost without having to drop gears and rev the motor, it makes acceleration alot better, even with my twinaxle plant trailer (about a tonne) I can get away quicker than a TD 90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 One question I have on these whizzy turbos, how does variable vane system in the turbo actually work - is it purely mechanical with the vanes operated by the boost pressure, or is one adding electricity to the engine department to control it? Most modern engines with VNTs (Puma, TDV6 being two I am familiar with) have an electronically controlled turbo actuator. There seem to be kits from Allard, M&D, maybe Allisport and maybe IRB, possibly others, are they all using the same basic TGV turbo? Do the turbo upgrades also alter the injector pump fuelling? The more I think about it the more likely a late Christmas present becomes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Most ECU controlled engines have a vacuum controlled actuator and an electronic valve to control the flow to the actuator on the turbo, in response to throttle demand etc. I would imagine however that these VGT kits will be using a simple mechanical actuator. There would be no real way for it to be ECU controlled, as the ECU wouldnt have any control over the fuelling etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger90 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 this now does sound even better now. I think i will have a word with ian from irb see if he can make a kit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patch1 Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Would a small or medium suppercharger do a better job if it would fit along with a nice free flowing exhaust you would have torque from 0 to earth spining. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 I've wondered about a supercharger on a Tdi.... wonder if it has been done before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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