Guest Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ok, Just found some of these http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item3a55d9ff80 on ebay, at this price worth a look, but how could I get it to work on my TD5??? if thats the heating element I would need a small pump to circulate the water, I was thinking getting a small box fabricated and adding it to that, making my own Kenlow!! any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarv Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 looks like a regular 'block heater' - you stick it in place of one of the core plugs and it directly heats the water jacket - some circulation is achieved by convection but there is no actual pump if it's off a Saab it is very unlikely to be the right fit - they are made specific to the core plug size fyi the Zerostart (Temro) P/N 3100087 available on this side of the pond fits 2.5NA + TDI (but is a 110V unit) - I don't know if it will fit the TD5 - if the core plugs are the same it might Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The advert doesn't give the wattage (or the voltage, as it happens). As a core plug heater without a pump expect 100 to 150 watts. Any higher and localised boiling will occur, without a pump. The Kenlowe is 3000 watts, with pump. Note that the pump is 240VAC, with the impellor being inductively coupled to the exciter coil (similar to a domestic central heating pump). This keeps the 240VAC away from the coolant. Whatever pump you buy you need to be absolutely certain to have this separation, because 240VAC into the coolant could come as quite a shock. Note that 10 hours at 100 Watts = 20 minutes at 3000 Watts. The snag is that the 100 Watt heat input is fairly easyly dissipated into the atmosphere, especially if the engine is outside. The characteristic of heat dispersal equalling heat input limits the temperature the engine will achieve. I've used a 100 Watt core plug style (albeit fitted into a bottom hose adaptor) on one engine, and a 3000 Kenlowe Hotstart on another. If the pump doesn't sieze during the off season (!) the Kenlowe is much more effective. Ask about the Wattage, but I think your suggestion falls into the catagory of 'Good idea, no cigar'. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakesy Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have just fitted a Oil Sump Heater Pad on my 3.5V8 today. So I will be testing this tomorrow. According to the blurb this will heat the oil and the engine block within 2 hours. So fingers crossed. While testing and ensuring bonding it goes very hot quickly. My main problem with the other varieties of engine block heater is space and to much altering of previously cut hoses for my LPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Diesel fired coolant heaters are cheap enough on eBlag and will give far faster / greater heat output than these random electrical contrivances that seem to be cropping up at the moment. The Kenlowe hotstart is also an option, mains power being a slight drawback but at least it won't flatten your battery. 100W is not a great amount of heat - sellotape a 100W lightbulb to your engine on a frosty day and see how warm the block gets OK it may be enough to stop things freezing, but it's not going to melt the ice off your windscreen the moment you turn the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The block heater in the pic is a Defa. According to their website, the effect is at least 400W. Or more, depending on what vehicle they fit. So where did 100W come from? I have one in my 200Tdi and it sure doesn't make the heat come on instantly after start. What it does however, is to enable the engine to start rather easily at low temps. Placing it somewhere else than where it's supposed to sit might not be a great idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The block heater in the pic is a Defa. According to their website, the effect is at least 400W. Or more, depending on what vehicle they fit. So where did 100W come from? My Memory :-) Plus the recollection of hearing one boiling when placed in a bottom hose. Whether it's 100 or 400, having tried a pumped 3000, I still think the Kenlowe Hotstart gives a better result, that is worth paying for. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars L Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 No doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Lower rad hose heaters work fine. For electric heaters, the frost plug styles perform the best. Obviously diesel fired heaters are faster, but plug in ones are much cheaper and easier to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cieranc Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I've recently acquired a Eberspacher engine heater from a Sprinter van. It's a small, diesel fired coolant heater with it's own coolant circulation and diesel pumps. From what I've read on other websites about this heater (in particular a camper van website where this is a popular modification), it takes about 15 mins of the heater running to get the coolant from stone cold to 80 degrees. My plan: Install the heater, coolant and diesel pump. Diesel to come from already installed auxilliary tank (veg oil twin tank setup). Install a small car battery (small square type out a little Korean car) alongside the main battery, fed through a split-charge relay. Wire the heater relay onto one of Maplins 2 channel remote control module thingy's. Adapt the vehicle wiring to run the interior fan on the second remote control channel (diodes probably needed to prevent back-feeding the ignition). Then, on a cold morning, I could fall out of bed, click one button of the remote control out of the window, this'll fire the heater up. Have a wash,15 mins later click the other button, power the fan up. Eat my coco pops, 10 mins later, nice warm, de-iced car. Worst case would be the second battery flattening, but as it'll be fed through a split-charge relay it won't pull the main battery down. I'll have to experiment with how long the battery would last with heater and fan going. But best of all, could start up and switch over onto veggy oil almost straight away. I figure the heater running for 15-20 mins will use much less diesel than driving long enough to warm the engine well enough for the veggy oil. What could possibly go wrong with this plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Somewhere in my garage is a 240v engine heater that was fitted as standard to ex RAF Locomotors bodied Defender ambulances. I'd have to check the maker but it consists of a tube with a coolant inlet at one end, an outlet at the other plus obviously the 240v cable which feeds an internal heating element. The thing was plumbed into the V8 block by replacing one or two of the block drain plugs and circulation was entirely by thermo-syphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Then, on a cold morning, I could fall out of bed, click one button of the remote control out of the window, this'll fire the heater up. Have a wash,15 mins later click the other button, power the fan up. Eat my coco pops, 10 mins later, nice warm, de-iced car. Worst case would be the second battery flattening, but as it'll be fed through a split-charge relay it won't pull the main battery down. I'll have to experiment with how long the battery would last with heater and fan going. You do not need to do this. The heaters have an output that automatically turns on the interior heater fan once the coolant is at the proper temperature. One battery is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Does the heater/blower not need the ignition on then? I thought they did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakesy Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Well update on my oil sump heater on a 3.5 v8. in 2 hours the oil is warm but the time to crank the engine is quicker on choke to fully off choke. Next to try is the 5-6 hours for full heated oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Does the heater/blower not need the ignition on then? I thought they did... No, you wire in a relay to bypass the switched power with unswitched power. It is a bit more of a pain on a Defender do to the very strange heater fan wiring arrangement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 If it's too hard, bolt a little 12v PC cooling fan in the heater system somewhere, it'll draw less current than the main heater fan but should circulate enough air to make a difference in a stationary vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakesy Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Well as promised an update on the oil sump heater pad. After 5 - 6 hours being on as being recommended for full heat. Poor . It will make the oil hot, but this does not transfer well to the engine block on 3.5v8. So really a expensive folly for me. Does allow the choke time usage to drop though but as a engine warmer by oil alone no. While browsing around though. I came across an article in another forum rangie.com. they mention the plus and minus of each type of pre heater. The one struck me as odd was a Catalytic Heater which was could be used on 90/110 for coolant storage heat. Has anyone here about this type mention. The problem I have most other pre heaters are too expensive or unable to fit within my lpg/heater matrix setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I could have told you that. Pad heaters, heat the oil. Very good for the engine. I can't imagine why anyone would need a coolant heater in the UK. If it does not want to start in UK temps, you have a problem that needs fixing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I could have told you that. Pad heaters, heat the oil. Very good for the engine. I can't imagine why anyone would need a coolant heater in the UK. If it does not want to start in UK temps, you have a problem that needs fixing. My problem is not about starting, its about getting warm!!!, sitting in a cold car for 1/2 hour is not fun, also as i intend to hang onto my landy for a good few years anything I can do to increase engine life by decreasing stress and wear on the engine is worth looking at. Cheers, Jason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Engine heaters with pump (electric or diesel), how do these heat the engine block? Most poor diagram of the install I've seen seem to suggest that the heater would have to pump water past the stationary water pump. Is this possible? Anybody got a better diagram of how they circulate water in the block without the water pump running. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Zardos - engine water pumps are just an impeller, not hard to flow past when they're stationary. The heaters just splice into the coolant circuit (usually heater hoses) and make warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Zardos - engine water pumps are just an impeller, not hard to flow past when they're stationary. The heaters just splice into the coolant circuit (usually heater hoses) and make warm. ... and they do work very very well (I had an unleaded one on the 109) indeed. Warms the engine first and then puts the cab heater fan on when the engine is warmed up. The best bit was the timer though: all warmed up before you'd even stepped outside It all came as a Defender kit, most of which didn't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 My problem is not about starting, its about getting warm!!!, sitting in a cold car for 1/2 hour is not fun, also as i intend to hang onto my landy for a good few years anything I can do to increase engine life by decreasing stress and wear on the engine is worth looking at. Cheers, Jason. With a V8??? You should get heat in a few minutes, at idle. Check that you thermostat is not leaking and the heater is setup correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderman Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 I had a Kenlowe on my tdi and it warmed everything up in miniutes ,Saving fuel and engine damage on cold start ups , Theives love the cold weather , Because people actualy still leave their cars running outside their homes to warm up . You finish of your coffee and come out to get in your car ,and there it is GONE , Not with a Kenlowe , Thats enough sales pitch , Mines on E-bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260522950576&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 why are you selling it then Ciderman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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