Walsho Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 Hello all. At this stage of my discovery rebuild i need to tow the finished chassis out of my yard and replace it with the doner disco. In order to replace the body onto the rebuilt chassis i will lift the body up,tow out the non running chassis and reverse in the recon chassis.To achive this i want to weld up an a-frame and bolt it to the chassis front end using the holes for the bumper.It will pivot up and down at the chassis end and have a hitch on the tow end.My question is can you tow the chassis using this a-frame and will it follow my van without me ending up in the ditch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyll Posted April 7, 2010 Share Posted April 7, 2010 There are a number of legal issues surrounding doing this on the public highway that I am not even going to touch. (Though, I'm sure an adult will be along shortly to point them out.) What I will say is that in essence, it will work. Junctions are a little unnerving as it takes a second or so for things on the towed chassis to catch up. We towed our IIA trialler around like this for a long while. We rigged up the cable from an overrun brake hitch to the brake pedal in the trialler, so it acted as a braked trailer effectivelly. I stand to have stones thrown at me, but that's my two penneth worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Aside from potential probable legal issues, you may also find that it will not steer correctly. The reason for this is that when the engine, body and such is on the chassis the suspension is compressed and the steering geometry is at the right angle to 'castor' - in other word to behave just like the castors on your supermarket trolley, and point in the direction of travel. Once the weight is removed and the springs rise you lose some or all of this castoring effect and, if it is extreme enough, the wheels will then try to point in any direction other than the direction of travel. During reversing the wheels will not castor, will go straight to full lock one way or tother and you will find it all but impossible to manoeuvre depending on the amount of weight your van has on the rear axle. For any number of reasons, the correct, safe and legal thing to do would be to trailer/flat bed the chassis. HTH Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welling4x4 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Aside from potential probable legal issues, you may also find that it will not steer correctly. The reason for this is that when the engine, body and such is on the chassis the suspension is compressed and the steering geometry is at the right angle to 'castor' - in other word to behave just like the castors on your supermarket trolley, and point in the direction of travel. Once the weight is removed and the springs rise you lose some or all of this castoring effect and, if it is extreme enough, the wheels will then try to point in any direction other than the direction of travel. During reversing the wheels will not castor, will go straight to full lock one way or tother and you will find it all but impossible to manoeuvre depending on the amount of weight your van has on the rear axle. For any number of reasons, the correct, safe and legal thing to do would be to trailer/flat bed the chassis. HTH Chris Sorry Chaps BUT I towed a range rover from Bristol to Devon & back on a A frame & I had NO issues. I spoke with a Traffic cop & asked him what were the rules & he said that none of the traffic cops would know if any laws were being broke. BUT i did HAVE A FLASHING AMBER LIGHT ON & a trailer board & did not get stopped @ any time taking it down oreven back when it was covered in mud.& as regarding steering it.s NOT that bad. I was down the motorway & had no props. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 For any number of reasons, the correct, safe and legal thing to do would be to trailer/flat bed the chassis. HTH Chris Just one set of reasons why not: Linky ... plus all the others above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92a Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I have towed a series 3 swb with my escort van on an A frame and before that,I towed my previous escort van behind a steam roller on an A frame. Landrovers follow much better than escort vans do! Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I towed a range rover from Bristol to Devon & back on a A frame & I had NO issues. I spoke with a Traffic cop & asked him what were the rules & he said that none of the traffic cops would know if any laws were being broke. BUT i did HAVE A FLASHING AMBER LIGHT ON & a trailer board & did not get stopped @ any time taking it down oreven back when it was covered in mud.& as regarding steering it.s NOT that bad. I was down the motorway & had no props. Doing it and getting away with it does not make it legal or sensible! I guess you were lucky to find a copper who only knew his way to the doughnut shop rather than any actual laws. Some actually do know, and if VOSA stopped you then you can bet your life they will know and will be only too happy to explain them to you while they are applying the Vaseline.... Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errol209 Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 Doing it and getting away with it does not make it legal or sensible! Cor, that's sig. material, right there, that is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I found it quite amazing, but when the chap from Richards Chassis delivered my Series III SWB chassis the other day he towed it behind a normal car. They had an 'axle' type thing made up to fit the chassis rails, and it was strapped on near the back end. Then there was an arrangement thing which attatched to the front of the chassis rails and to his tow-ball. Don't know quite how legal that was, but it was quite inventive I thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 I found it quite amazing, but when the chap from Richards Chassis delivered my Series III SWB chassis the other day he towed it behind a normal car. They had an 'axle' type thing made up to fit the chassis rails, and it was strapped on near the back end. Then there was an arrangement thing which attatched to the front of the chassis rails and to his tow-ball. Don't know quite how legal that was, but it was quite inventive I thought! I would have thought that would be ok though I may be wrong. It is a bit like the pole trailers of old used in timber haulage. Some long loads are transported that way where the load forms part of the connection between the tractor and the trailer or the front and back bogies. I have plans for a small two wheel bogie on Indespension units that can be use for transporting long timber. Strap a tow hitch at one end of the timber, a trailer board at the other end and the bogie about 2/3 of the way along. Make sure nothing can escape by strapping it all together end to end with a 2" ratchet strap and I have a long pole trailer that fits in the boot of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted April 9, 2010 Share Posted April 9, 2010 This link contains some good information about requirements for trailers: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers as does this one: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/ A bare chassis only weighs about 150 - 200 kg so it's well below the limit for an unbraked trailer on pretty much any car. So long as it has a trailer board with lights on it and the wheels are securely attached (and have mudguards) then it's the same as any other light trailer. The principle is true for a complete vehicle as well, except that it is much heavier and so it must have effective brakes if its weight exceeds 50% of the weight of the towing vehicle (which it almost always will). There are systems which allow the service brakes on a towed vehicle to be activated by the hitch over-run (basically a hydraulic cylinder which braces off the seat base and pushes on the brake pedal inside the towed car) but keeping the steering under control for more than a very short distance is tricky which is why professional recovery operators use a dolly with wheels (or a spectacle lift) to raise the front wheels of the towed vehicle off the ground. The biggest single problem with lash-up arrangements is that anything which does not meet the Construction and Use Regulations is not legal for use on the road and unless you have a fully fledged motor trade policy will almost certainly invalidate your insurance. Apart from the fact that most clued up traffic fuzz (and VOSA) know this and driving without insurance is high on their list of things to catch people out for, the consequences for your wallet if something does go wrong do not bear thinking about and will rapidly make a trailer look like a very good investment. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 A thread from a while ago looking at the legal side of dollies & 'a'-frames. Have a look through the following links. Dollies can only be used to recover a vehicle from its broken down location to - effectively - the nearest place of safety. That doesn't mean halfway across the country! You may bring up the subject of the dollies used by many AA vehicles, but in the links below you will note they are regarded as 'specialist breakdown vehicles' An A-frame is viewed as a trailer and a trailer with a weight over 750kg must be braked. With very few exceptions (the caratow link but if your car is damaged then unlikely this would be of any use) an A-frame will not comply with the law other than the removal to a place of safety aspect. So you will need a proper trailer to remain legal. And you will need to comply with the driving licence requirements for trailers.... http://www.caratow.com/ http://www.recoveryuk.com/laws.html (Essex Police 'Breakdown vehicle' 'Recovery truck' 'driving licence requirements') You could of course chance your luck, but if you get a prohibition notice it makes life a bit difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shauniedawn Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 ............... you may also find that it will not steer correctly. The reason for this is that when the engine, body and such is on the chassis the suspension is compressed and the steering geometry is at the right angle to 'castor' - in other word to behave just like the castors on your supermarket trolley, and point in the direction of travel. Once the weight is removed and the springs rise you lose some or all of this castoring effect and, if it is extreme enough, the wheels will then try to point in any direction other than the direction of travel. Chris I moved one of my TR7s last night using my Dolly. You are quite right about the castor effect. The car steered much worse than when I tow a 'complete' car. Check out the difference in front suspension heights... Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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