Grant. Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hi all, Mate of mines just swapped his input gear on his transfer box for one from ashcrofts ( cross drilled ) He basically: removed PTO cover, Removed old gear Fitted new input gear Replaced cover. He left the original races, as they were in perfect condition. its noticeably hot at the top of the transfer box! Has he missed anything? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hotter than it was before or just that it's suddenly been noticed because people are looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant. Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hotter than it was before or just that it's suddenly been noticed because people are looking? Good point, said the same to him, however he said its hotter than before... (do they get hot there? Ive never checked) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHodgson Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 If after a long run on a hot day the transfer box is too hot to hold your hand on I would consider that normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 squirt some water at it and see if and where the water turns to steam then you know 2 things, one its 100deg + which is not normal and 2 the area that is warmest suggesting a problem area. It took me 14hrs to drive Sheff to Aberdeen as transfer box kept overheating, turned out to be a compounded problem between 2 U joints on the front prop fwd where solid and the rear prop expansion splines where solid too, caused the whole transmission to get stressed out a bit. Lots of steam was like a sauner in the cab... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I'd say 100+ deg could be normal for transmission, they do get hot when working, certainly too hot to hold your hand on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hi, It is my car that this applies too I wasnt around last night so asked Grant to put it up for me The heat is centralising around the top part of the transfer box, after about 1 mile the area around the input gear is hot to the touch but not scaulding, I have also noticed a slight whine. Could it be that the PTO cover bolts act as pre-load on the bearing and I have done them up too tight? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Where the splines clean on the shaft when you put the new gear in? if not I guess the ****e could have stopped the gear seating so thats pressing back on the bearings too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Yeah, brand new and prepp'd by ashcroft, bearings were also pressed in by them, transfer box slipped straight on, no problems. I'm trying to work out whether transfer boxes have some sort of shim or torque to control pre-load, but i'm struggling to find information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I don't recall anything but it was sodding years ago I did that job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 The box has got oil in hasn't it? ETA: gear oil not ATF like the mainbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Yup full of EP90, ashcroft say the whine can be from pattern bearings...but mine came straight from ashcroft hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSIIA Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Bearings should be replaced as complete assemblies i.e. races included. I would fit the new races and recheck the endfloat of the gear. There should be a selective shim to correct this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Preload is set by shims in the bearing holder - the first bit of alloy that you screw onto the transfer box before you bolt the PTO cover on. The shims sit behind the bearing race. The torque you set the screws and bolts to and the gasket between the alloy bearing casing and the transfer box are vital in setting the preload correctly. My suspicion is that you have the preload set wrong, perhaps the gasket missing (replaced with liquid sealant?) and the torque incorrect on the PTO cover bolts. If all/most of these are wrong, the input gear and its bearings will be too tight and this could explain the heat. The preload can be measured in place using a dial gauge, but it is not easy to do this accurately in my experience. Grant, when you heading this way for the flywheel housing???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickwilliams Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 As discussed here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=48673 I don't think that you need to worry about re-shimming the transfer box bearings, even if you replace the bearings. By far the most likely cause of incorrect pre-load on the bearings (which I agree is the most likely cause of any extra heating in this case) is the absence of the cover plate and bearing carrier gaskets. Try a set of new, clean gaskets (don't use sealant, the real things are cheap as chips: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LT230-PTO-COVER-GASKET-/260595845809) and see if the problem goes away. Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Ok now I am a bit annoyed, I told ashcroft to supply me with everything I need and they said all I need to do was remove the old on and put theirs in. Hmm not all they are cracked up to be it seems You are correct, I have used sealant as per ashcrofts instruction, I wont be able to get the correct seals before the weekend, any quick fixes anyone can think of? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSIIA Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Sort out the bearing tracks first. Clean the gasket faces on the transfer box and bearing carrier. Assemble bits in to transfer box and lightly hold the bearing carrier in place (a couple of bolts could act as guides to locate) - is there a gap between the bearing carrier and mating face on the transfer box? If so, this will be the amount of preload you will apply to the bearings. IIRC, liquid gaskets were introduced from the 300Tdi onward (mid 1994). Gaskets can be cut from cardboard (cereal packet). Apply a reasonable coating of general purpose grease to both faces and assemble as normal. This should remain leak free for some considerable time, and certainly long enough to source some genuine articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 When you consider the tiny difference in thickness of the shims used behind the race on the carrier to set the pre-load, you realise how important the gasket and its thickness could be. You only need the gasket between the bearing race carrier and the transfer box body. The PTO cover can be replaced using liquid sealant as the pto cover doesnt have an effect on the preload. It is really important the bolts are done up to the correct torque though - have you done them and the two countersunk screws up to 25nm - this isnt all that tight, so its easy to overtighten if you dont use a torque wrench. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I don't know if you have tried this and it's a bit radical but rather than bitching about it on an internet forum, have you tried phoning Ashcrofts and discussing it? Currently we don't even know if it's just a bit different than it was before or even exactly the same but you never noticed. The top may well get hotter because the bottom is full of oil, I don't know anyone who's ever measured the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Not meaning to bitch, I just havent had a chance inside of opening hours to contact ashcroft about it, but I did ask them to explain the procedure over the phone, but that wasn't correct. Unfortunately I don't have the tools to get to the inner race just now, so will check the preload and do the outer race today, i'll report back to see if that has helped thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Box has to come off to change the inner race really, thats why most people dont worry about them a lot of the time. Use a gasket and torque the bolts correctly and see if that makes any difference. If you phone ashcorfts now, there may be someone there. But as others have said, i guess it may be running fine as the boxes do get hot under use. If you need it i have an LT230 overhaul manual somewhere - i cant remember the original link, but can send you a pdf copy if you pm me your email address. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 LT230 overhaul manual LT230R LT230T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 LT230R LT230T Thats the ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 I've done the best in the time available, Fitted the new outer race, checked the shim size and re-assembled without the pto cover, measured the gap and made a suitable cardboard gasket, once torqued the play in the shaft just goes away, then put it all back together. I am hoping that will survive ok until I can rip the TB back out early next week Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam001 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Seems to have done the trick, Not a permenant solution, but the heat has gone and so has the whine. Reason for needing a quick solution was because I am off to Yarwell tomorrow, so that will test it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.