Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Snorkels.....or more accurately snorkel "Tops" What is puzzling me is the fact many snorkels have a "Top" which has the opening pointing to the front of the LR. Ok, so when you go "a Wadin'" thats a long wasy off the ground ....but : What about when you are on the road, driving along in torrenal rain ? What about if you are off road and "Hit" water hard, the water will spray up and into the snorkel top, as above ? I know some snorkles have backward facing maybe for this reason, but on road then it could run weak as its then trying to suck air in prob in a vortex ? Bottom sucking snorkle tops (if that makes sense) is prob yet another compromise, a combo of minor vortex, and water will most probably be drawn in to a degree ? But particularly the forward facing issues ? Thoughts ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landrover598 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 The Safari Ram type snorkel top has water seperation ducts so that rain water comes out of the bottom of the top More details here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 well forwards/backwards makes little diference as a Diesel draws air with a real force. the L/r have a side vent on the TDI's and they cope drawing air in. try putting your hand near a diesel intake(but mind those fingers) on a petrol I'd go for a ram air type as the mushroom one I had caused worse consumption and limited airflow IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Must admit I faced mine backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 The bottom-entry mushroom ones have angled vents so the air goes round and round inside them first. Anything heavy is centrifuged out and you can often see a trail of dust running from the side vents. It sounds like Safari have managed a similar thing with their forward-facing design. Any filtration will cause a pressure loss - I'd imagine there's even lower pressure drawing from the centre of the mushroom type when all the air's spinning. At the end of the day, your choice. Has anyone heard of an engine hydraulicking through a snorkel with any kind of top on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 As David said, the Safari is designed so the rain hits the back of the snorkel and runs down the back and out vents in the bottom of the snorkel head. It probably works with rain but if you took a green one over the bows and it got that high, it certainly wouldn't cope with that sort of quantity of water as the holes are quite small. Not sure what happens then!! Pray I guess... haven't done it yet and I keep thinking I should turn it round but can't be bothered. Also the slight downward tilt of the Safari top seems to collect a certain amount of mud travelling upwards from the front wheels with wide tyres on (33x12.50R15 - stick out past the arches) not sure about that bit of design either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Forgot to say, IIRC Jules said on here a while back that a mate of his had done some trials with a racer, comparing snorkel top facing forwards/backwards and it made NO difference at all to times. But it looks better facing forwards, so forwards it is on mine Also forgot to say that when I had a mushroom topped snorkel, it used to get a lot of mud in the air filter from what sprayed up into the bottom of the mushroom, dried, broke up and then went in through the vents. Used to get a fair bit of finely minced peat in the air filter, just need to empty the collection pot in the bottom every so often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 i have mine facing fwd and then inwards or backwards when playing in water or its raining and i remember. i dont think Ram air on a fwd facing snorkel has much affect until you get above 90mph, well that was the theory for ram air on Susuki bikes etc. therefore prob no difference on LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 funnnily enough been on a nother forum and ram effect has no eeffectt until you are at 120 mph re: water and rain; not a problem, many kit cars run with air filters exposed to rain and it does no harm; obvioulsy wading would cause probs. I like the idea of centrifugal (dyson) effect for filtering though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 i run my safari snorkel pointing backwards for one simple reason. when it was pointing forwards & i push past bushes/trees my airbox filled up with leaves to the point my tdi was almost stalling at idle. since turning it round i havent had the problem. besides pointing it backwards means i can hear the turbo whine better with the window open... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Nige, I wouldn't worry about rain; it really isn't an issue. I've driven in seriously heavy rain (couldn't see more than 15 - 20 yards in front of me) and that was with the ram forwards. Off road I've rarely turned it either and had no problems although I don't normally hit water fast. Some mud does seem to find its way into the airbox although I find leaves and dust are a much bigger problem. I'm even thinking about running a second airbox with the new setup as I've found at events where its very dry I'm significantly down on power by the end of the day because dust's clogged the filter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgie Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Mine normally faces forwards, although I turn it round to face backwards when off-road, only cos it doesn't seem to take in as much dust when facing backwards. Here a link to details about how the Safari intake works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 Right ! Ta All Foward facing I think it will be for me then, may make a second one, .............................but "Todays" job is to make a snorkel top then Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 ....and its "3 bears engineering" time : 1st - made out of cardboard spenmt ages designing and then mounted : ITS HORRIBLE - Binned 2nd Spent ages with 4 1/2 inch tube welded fabricated and made to fit, then b*ggered it up hole drillin' 3rd time lucky Monday here we come (FFS) Kin fabrication Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 HFH - I thought about this a few months back - there was a thread, but I can't find it now- maybe on the old forum. Anyway, the general consensus was that any water that gets through the filters would simply pass through the engine (like a free water injection system ). Makes sense - lots of people run it without hydraulicking (sp?) the engine, I guess the droplets would be pretty fine after passing through the final filter anyway. If you compare the volume of air injested per unit time with the likely max volume of water making it into the snorkel, I think I'd be comfortable with it. Regarding ram air effect (increasing intake pressure for performance - 'nature's supercharger' ). There is no one single magic speed at which it suddenly 'has an effect' of course, but the figures above are in the right ballpark, there is no point in considering it for regular road-type speeds. So don't let this sway your decision to mount it forward/backward facing. I guess this raises the question what is the point in having it fwd facing??? Oh, and 'yes' to what they said above about multiple holes - just do as much open space as you can and be done with it, you'll certainly see significantly greater losses than a single aperture. Cheers, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefcoL Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Mine normally faces forwards, although I turn it round to face backwards when off-road, only cos it doesn't seem to take in as much dust when facing backwards. Here a link to details about how the Safari intake works. The general view seems to be; no performance loss when facing backwards. If this is so then it would seem to be better as then you avoid any unwanted c*** being scooped in. Unless when facing to the rear a vacuum /vortex is created that in turn adds to dust intake.. The tail gate on my V70 seem to collect most of the dirt.. Could it be for the same reason? Anyone got the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Anyone got the answer? Think so... The crud on the back of your car is picked up off the road behind/under the car by the air currents around/under where the flow separates off the back of the car. I could post a diagram, but I can't be bothered . The shape of the back of the car dictates how 'bad' this effect is, how high the dust is thrown up etc etc (as you'd expect). Since the intake facing backwards is nothing to do with scraping carp off the road as you drive past, this won't be an issue. In fact, it's almost bound to be better since your relative motion to particulate carp flowing past the intake (which has significant inertia and probably wont be able to reverse it's direction fast enough to flow inwards (depending on mass, relative velocity, etc etc)) is in the desirable direction. So by piecing together unrelated nuggets of technical horse-manure, I confidently predict that backwards-facing intake = cleaner air into the system. Maybe... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattD110td5x Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Here a link to details about how the Safari intake works. and here's a link that shows the snorkle working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 http://www.safari4x4.com.au/docs/snorkel/air_ram.htm Blimey - they don't exactly go overboard on the tech, do they? "...this new Safari Charge Air Ram has been purposely modelled to complement the more rounded and aerodynamic lines of modern day 4WD vehicles..." I'd say their 'Increased Charge Airflow' arrow pointing into the intake is verging on misleading, personally... Still, it does the job, eh? Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 Another random thought - if you are driving through torrential rain and worried about the amount of water going into the cylinders (though a little won't hurt - and may infact help); increase your revs. If you think of it like nitrous injection - you're pumping in a given amount per unit time, so the more revs you do, the less water (or nitrous) you will see in each cylinder charge, therefore the less likelihood there is of over-filling a cylinder with water, and the possible consequences thereof. That's why nitrous 'window switches' have a lower limit too. [i think... ] Ok, irrelevant, but same principle. Just a theoretical rambling... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budgie Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 and here's a link that shows the snorkle working That is a good video Matt, don't think you'ld catch me inside that Toyota though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.