landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 27 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: Mine too - been there, done that, never again. Makes my hands itch just thinking about it. We used it on a mate's kit car manifold. Just a splash from a puddle is enough to have it steaming for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 These guys are just down the road from work and I've heard good things: https://zircotec.com/products/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 18 hours ago, Snagger said: Would ceramic coating or glass mat wrapping the manifolds not help temperatures a lot? I think it’d be far better to have passive systems reduce the heat getting into the engine bay than adding active systems to try to remove more., if they work. I have looked at this but these are "DAKAR" Big Bore Cast ported by Eales Manifolds and tight as a tight thing under there plus wrapping can cause them to rot internally even as cast steel......not sure you can ceramic coat cast steel can you ???? N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 28 minutes ago, Hybrid_From_Hell said: I have looked at this but these are "DAKAR" Big Bore Cast ported by Eales Manifolds and tight as a tight thing under there plus wrapping can cause them to rot internally even as cast steel......not sure you can ceramic coat cast steel can you ???? N I would assume you can given they coat turbo bodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Yep, you can ceramic coat cast manifolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 I still can't get over the overkill on this - FIVE fans is just ridiculous and says to me that there's a neater solution waiting to be found, it also suggests the system as it currently stands is sitting right on the ragged edge and all the fans etc. are just sticking plasters to mask a lack of cooling capacity. I'd wonder if ditching 2-3 fans and instead adding some depth to the rad (hence more cooling surface area) or something like that would be more effective. Have you instrumented the cooling system & engine bay to actually see what is happening? I just come back to Mouse and the fact it was pushing significantly more HP with a smaller rad & a single fan and never got hot as far as I know. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 8 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: I still can't get over the overkill on this - FIVE fans is just ridiculous and says to me that there's a neater solution waiting to be found, it also suggests the system as it currently stands is sitting right on the ragged edge and all the fans etc. are just sticking plasters to mask a lack of cooling capacity. I'd wonder if ditching 2-3 fans and instead adding some depth to the rad (hence more cooling surface area) or something like that would be more effective. Have you instrumented the cooling system & engine bay to actually see what is happening? I just come back to Mouse and the fact it was pushing significantly more HP with a smaller rad & a single fan and never got hot as far as I know. all fine on road, fans hardly come on much - its all when off roadIts a combination of Buried deep in mud off road, so sides and underneath do not let air out - its trapped. Then - Seriously seriously tight engine bay - no room at all / no air space / no ways out (louvres) Engine is still just a Rover V8, ....but bored to 5.2 with a ultra / daft level of tunedness so when worked really hard off road with all the above is when its an issue ... I did look at rear rad route but chose not to ................... N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Agreed. Lose a fan and you lose the engine? That’s no way to solve it. A deeper rad as per John’s recommendation is going to do more than having a pusher and a puller fan, unless you have those fans staggered to cover more of the rad footprint, but a cowl that expands to the edges of the matrix like the OEM cowls achieves the same thing even better. I think any cowl needs to be tapered like the originals to be effective, though, not a flat pancake a couple of inches behind the core, running parallel to the rad surface. I don’t see a bonnet fan doing much to improve ventilation through those grilles - air that hot already wants to rise vigorously. I think you would just be adding complexity and electrical load, and a restriction over the grilles if the fan stops. Having the wing top vents open to the engine bay, both with open mesh rather than the original moderately closed plastic mesh of the heater intake grilles could help a fair bit. You’d need to remove the heater matrix intake tract for the left wingtip to become a “thermal exhaust port”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 Interestingly - Just got back from delivering a Patio Table strapped the cage for a friend, (as you do) hoofed and booted and NONE of the 4 x fans switched on all absolutely fine, ok, its a cool day but with the 90 moving air flow and not blocked underneath the engine fan on its own more than enough . The alisport radiator has a rear cowling made with the 2 x spala, the front I have made with cowling to block top and sides etc so it goes into the huge radiator ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 My fans only ever come on when sitting in traffic or driving off-road, or occasionally thrashing up a mountain pass - generally if you're moving you almost never need the fans. I still think if 2 decent fans can't remove enough heat from the radiator to keep it cool then airflow is not the problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 What sort of an air gap around the bonnet edges like, Nige? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Tuned 4.0 crammed into a tight engine bay and nothing but a 6-cylinder series rad to keep it cool. 82C stat. With the fan on it ends up running at 76C despite the stat. On road above 20mph and it keeps cool without the fan. On faster B-roads where you are constantly accelerating/braking it can creep up into the 90s, but it is quite happy there. That said I don't go sitting in bog holes up to the chassis deliberately, as I'm too lazy to get under there with a pressure washer that often, so the gravelly/rocky sites are my preference by a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 55 minutes ago, Snagger said: What sort of an air gap around the bonnet edges like, Nige? Huge plenum prob 2+ x the size of a normal plenum and taller so 25mm gap between top plenum and underside of bonnet - all bonnet strengthening bars have also been remove to get it all to fit under 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Also: Spal do very different spec fans, I spent ages trawling for what I wanted and landed with Spal 16" 2185cfm puller fan, that runs around 17A when up to speed, and it puls about 5 times the amount of air the old clagged up one did. Hard to tell exactly, but your fans do not seem to have the same chunky motor out the back, so they may just be lightweight ones hence the problems -Spal make good fans for all sorts, but not all sorts fit your V8's requirements. Compare: It would be good to get the part number off yours so you can look up specs on their website, most of the fans are ~1000cfm, some are over 2000..... at least in the 16" versions. If the middle part of the number starts with AP10, AP45 or AP51 you aren't making the most of the back of your radiator at all. The first digit after the AP is the power, the second (i.e. the 1 in all these numbers) makes it a puller fan. Spal seem to think pull/pusher makes not a lot of difference: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 How close are these fans to the rad, could be perspective but they don't look like they are up against the core? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 I meant do you have a reasonable gap between bonnet edges and wing tops to vent the hot air. That is a good point about the fans. Aftermarket fans are a bit pathetic compared to some OEM electric fans. I think someone was telling me about Granada fans being heavy bladed and shifting huge amounts of air. It’d be worth looking around a scrap yard for fans of suitable diameter but much greater heft than the typical mail-order stuff. And as mentioned above, make sure their shrouds is right up against the rad core, or they will circulate the blown air between the rad and the shroud rather than forcing it through the rad. More than a 1mm gap will severely reduce fan performance. If you can’t mount the fans closer to the rad, then use rubber or neoprene strips to make a seal between shrouds and rad core. Reading through your post about the five fans again gives me a lot of doubts. I don’t think the engine driven fan is doing anything at all, and the pushers and pullers are not going to be as complimentary as might be expected. I think two similar fans, either pusher or puller, with much more rotor solidity and bigger motors (more blades or blades with greater chord) will be far more effective. I think those front pushers are probably losing mush of their blown air out of the sides of their cowls, but the pullers will at least be fairly efficiently doing their job if the sheet metal cowl is sealed well against the rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 I hadn't twigged that the viscous fan was still on there .... If that's not got a cowling you're just wasting power on pushing it round, it's not moving the air anywhere, just stirring it. Have you tried the viscous with the decent rad with a proper cowl? IMO I think most of the effort here is wasted on getting air in, when getting air out of the other 'end' (read: top/sides/bottom) is the issue. Trying to push more air in the front is pointless if you've not nowhere for it to go. Your drive on the road seems to prove this theory as it's being worked but has opportunities for hot air to get out. Bonnet height mentioned above - Have you got the seal down the edges? If so, I'd loose that. Then, which way round have you got the bushes in the hinges? I seem to remember that putting them in the wrong way round lifts the back edge of the bonnet by about 10mm with then a tapered gap along the sides. What about a chimney to let the heat out? @Snagger I don't see an issue with the puller fans being away from the rad but only as long as the cowl is well sealed to the rad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Just looking at the zircotec stuff again.... https://zircotec.com/products/coatings/thermohold/performance-white/ 'Performance White' seems to be their main exhaust coating. Only 0.3mm thick and good for 1400C. Claiming a 33% reduction in surface temp. loosing a 3rd of the exhaust heat from under the bonnet has to make a big difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 13 minutes ago, landroversforever said: hadn't twigged that the viscous fan was still on there Not a viscous, a fixed fan. I would agree, likely not doing very much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 12 minutes ago, landroversforever said: What about a chimney to let the heat out? isn't that what "louvres" do ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 Solved it for you @Hybrid_From_Hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just when HFH thought he had his cooling issues sorted you lot come along, his wallet has started crying again 😜 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 15 hours ago, landroversforever said: I hadn't twigged that the viscous fan was still on there .... If that's not got a cowling you're just wasting power on pushing it round, it's not moving the air anywhere, just stirring it. Na ...thats a summit racing fixed fan with home made adapter, steel baldes - probably not the best idea for mr Bump to have on his truck but hey ho ... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 17 hours ago, Bowie69 said: Also: Spal do very different spec fans, I spent ages trawling for what I wanted and landed with Spal 16" 2185cfm puller fan, that runs around 17A when up to speed, and it puls about 5 times the amount of air the old clagged up one did. Hard to tell exactly, but your fans do not seem to have the same chunky motor out the back, so they may just be lightweight ones hence the problems -Spal make good fans for all sorts, but not all sorts fit your V8's requirements. Quite so, these are the high output units which I don't think are a curent model, but were hovering around the 1800 CFM area rear fronts just over 2000 Again, road use - engine fan on own is pretty much fine, off road maybe the 2 x rears come on (both are individually switched from rad sensors) its ONLY when really worked f hard and maybe on a seriously hot day (remember them lol ) that it needs the front 2 which knock in down super quickly These 5.2s apart from having huge bores on what is a tweaked 3.5 block are also in a very high state of tune, they are known to be tricky on cooling, normally in racers, so big air flow / prob rear rads and fnas, sometimes scoops over roofing etc so not a problem, its when bogged and revved hard and sides and bottom of bay is all blocked up. pretty much sorted now. Oh and if anyone is wondering - amps wise I have a 2250 CCA f HUGE Military 12V truck battery in the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Quick mental maths means your fans are probably pulling close to 80A when on full chat, plus your EWP, another 20A maybe? Hope your alternator is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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