AWDC XL Challenge 2011

[will4x4]

Sorry if i started something that is discussed every year.. i have only been competing for the last 18months so didn't realise ..

Just to try and explain i do understand the class system as it is and that it does help people develop their trucks.. where i feel this is flawed very much as "Daan" has already commented its just too big a gap as it is.. and maybe if not adding a point deduction system then adding one more class could easily break this up ( i still think using tyre size would do this)

I think we're competitive as a team and finished 3rd this year however if I'm honest were totally out classed by equipment that others have and not sure if i can re mortgage to keep up

[JST]

I think we're competitive as a team and finished 3rd this year however if I'm honest were totally out classed by equipment that others have and not sure if i can re mortgage to keep up

3rd is good going, although to be fair i thought that was Ian and Tom. you dont have to re mortgage to do well, look at RV4, £2.5k build cost or so IIRC (its in the tech here) and 2nd overall at HW on consecutive years plus 2009 AWDC truck of the year.

[will4x4]

Nope were 3rd overall in class 3

I'll have a look at the build we drive ours home after each event

But yeah there are some pros / cons

[markyb]

I wasn`t going to comment either just drop out this year but as we are having a good discussion i thought i would.

To start with , i enjoyed the HW this year, thought slindon was the best round as the section were really well put out and enjoyed the night sections which brought it together to be a good team spirt event, yeah coming 3rd in class 3 was also good news.

Will4x4, I agree we did alright this year but I would need to put the same money again into the truck to make it last and carry out the section that will be/have been setup for a 44+ boggers.

As for the 2.5k build, great if you have the contacts/ discounts, but my winch, winch bumper, winch rope , tyres and wheels cost that much. but i would need to put that money again into the front winch to get it up to spec to cope with the change and the sections ( which is fine).

Yeah the class system works but i dont think there is enough detail . I remmeber the scropion raciing sponsored events when it all started and the regs seemed clearer then, as centre winches and fiddle brakes wouldnt have been allowed in class 3. Also a lot of other events have more detail in their regs, which makes it clear on what you can and cant have, and main thing is you can decide if your enter or not ...

I was hoping for a class tyre size regulation to be brought in, as with the current regs i could go away and build a 50 inch bogger on a set of portals/ spidertrack axles Mr sealey winch in the middle etc etc after a visit to the bank and if i had no failures and driving was any good or up to scratch walk over all the other class 3 / maybe 2 and 1 competitors.

I do think your see more of that next year which puts me out as i feel the sections just get more damaging, dangerous and as we found when we tackled the night stage in the woods Last at slindon, its chewed up completely. we still got an alright time mind you .

lastly i suppose i should add is that great the AWDC are trying to move the sport in the right direction be great to watch it on SKY, but for me it means I will have to move onto other things as it is like me turning up in my formula first car and everyone else is in formula 1 version. it seems to me that the AWDC challenges have moved on past my budget and class 3 is what used to be the class 1.

Neil. will let you know what dates i can marshal if you need bodies

sigining off :-) still happy and smiling.

[najw]

Thanks for your feedback Mark, all comments are read and duly noted.

The class structure actually hasn't changed at all since the Scorpion series, all that changed was the naming as there was some confusion in some minds as to what a 'Standard Class'vehicle entailed. So to avoid that confusion it was renamed 'Limited Modifications'. Single centre winches and fiddles would have been allowed it was just that no-one cottoned onto the fact

We try to keep the class structure simple so it is easy for everyone to understand. If we introduced a further class then it would place more limitations such as tyre size as you suggest which would I think only serve to split Class 3 and leave 1 & 2 unaffected.

We don't set the sections out to stop the Class One vehicles as that would be unfair on everyone else who has paid the same entry fee to play. This fact is borne out by the fact that certain Class One vehicles have finished the event hours before everyone else on a number of occasions this year. As you say it would also make the sections more dangerous and we don't want that.

I am hoping that by introducing more timed sections then that ability to complete all 20 sections will not offer the same advantage as it did last year.

[markyb]

Neil , I thought of a few more plus points, All those people building trucks this year ready for next year will be happy the format is similar.

be good to se how it pans out, Im planning a year out so i can move house and replace a few bits on the old girl. do a couple of events and a few more trips abroad. Will be along to the local ones to have a watch,

[zim]

Sorry missed that detail it will be best 6 from 8

the difference is that some sections will be timed with additional points awarded accordingly

Helmets must meet the specs stated in the tech regs which will be updated imminently

Hi Neil,

Any details on the helmet regs ? I may have to sort new radios that all.

Regards

Gordon

[najw]

Hi Gordon

Helmet spec as follows:

The helmet must conform to the current MSA regulations listed in the ‘Blue Book’ [C©90]. You must use a helmet with a fire resistant lining, the label will read B.S.6658-85 A F/R and is red in colour or Snell SA2000, these are the two most common standards for motor sports crash helmets. The full list is in the MSA Blue Book, do not accept any other.

[zim]

Thank you

[Taff]

The clock is ticking & there is only 5 weeks (yes 5 weeks) until the starting flag drops, so who is signing up for Walter's on the 6th of March? For the first round of the XL Series....

Or even more fundamental, who is signed up for all 8 rounds?

Regards,

Taff.

[simon_s]

Got the All Wheel Driver mag this morning, looks like the new format could make things a bit more interesting! Good use of the Cyberkeys... Wish I could be there to see it!

[najw]

The first round of the AWDC's new XL Challenge series takes place at Walter's Arena, Glyn Neath on Sunday 6th March.

Full details and online entry facility are HERE

Round one is generously sponsored by

[mr whippy]

is there an entry list available to view so we can see who is going and what their driving?

[najw]

Jonathan Smith & Alan Webb Class 3 Land Rover 90

ENDS

[saley]

Neil

We will be there put us down,will pay on day if thats ok class 2 bulldog

[team gunit]

neil

put us in will sort the payments for the first 4 rounds.

mark

[zim]

We'll be there as well (can do 5 out of 8 this year). Will sort an entry form later.

G

[D3DPE]

Looking forward to the first round! Never been to Walters before.....

Kev Pocock and Dan Elias

I'll send the entry in next week Neil!

Dan - best get a new helmet!

[najw]

Ok three weeks to go until entries close and so far four confirmed entries and three promised.

So I really would appreciate the feedback as to where we have gone wrong given that three years ago we were selling out events with 40 entries

If it's a perceived MSA issue then I would appreciate an exact reason as our regs have not changed as a result of MSA changes. We have voluntarily upgraded our ROPS and helmet regulations in view of a perceived risk incease.

Grateful for your feedback before I find myself a new reason to get away at the weekends!

[saley]

Hi Neil

From listening to a few it seems to me that the majority ie. the standardish class trucks (90s, traybacks not very large tyres etc)dont seem to want to compete against larger more evolved trucks, and I think you could see this start when the challenger series started with quite a few people leaving the Howlinwolf and going there, the LRS is fully book with 36"tyre size, looking like this rule is the factor.

I dont know what to suggest without putting rules in to stop the evolution of trucks and keep the (his toys are bigger than mine men)happy, but the scoring count seemed popular (used in the challenger) to level the playing field but has never been taken on.

PS. you could get a caravan and join the caravan club with Glynn

[tonka]

just my opinion, 8 rounds is a heck of a lot, i appreciate this is the premier uk winch challenge series and it needs to keep its prestige. If you want to compete in the overall championship then you have a lot of miles to enter all events, which was part of my decision not to enter. plus all of the obvious repairs etc. also if there is an event every month for 8 months this doesn't leave much of an opportunity to enter any other event.

[yella 90]

Personaly im not that bothered what i compete against and people should stop being mard arses

Ill be selecting the rounds that i do which are close ish to home

Mainly because of fuel costs ect

I do intend on entering a few

But ill wait to hear on feedback about this event with regards to how its set out section wise

Quite a few were not happy with how the punches were put into fixed one direction sections.

I only did one event ( bitching for boothy at kirton)

I wasnt overly keen on them but i still liked it for some reason

Dan

[Nobbymogs]

we didnt do the HW last year due to not having a truck as we bit off a little more than we could chew but we got there in the end and pleased with the end result

any way

after watching numerous events last year we decided that a championship was no longer what we wanted to do and just move around and pick a choose the events we wanted to do, as we also found that going back to 2009 season we were invited to lots of different events, and found that we were a bit scared to enter other events due to not having the time or money to fix it if it broke and get ready for the next round of the HW which we were kind of tied into the championship i also thought that Class 3 was starting to get a bit silly as when the day started you were driving round the site looking for easy punches for standard class then later on in the day as there were not that many easy ones out there you ended up having a go thus putting you on your roof or breaking something i think that the point system could do with a little tweak to help the standard class vehicles not that we are in standard class any more but i now a lot of people still are

not only that but money does come into it as well the HW was £80.00 per day where as most 1 day events are on average £50, you have the cost of Joining the AWDC plus the clubman licence it all adds up and then you have the fuel on top im sure in the AGM there was a thing up just for fun on how many miles competitors had done getting too events and im sure ours was over 2000 miles and that year we didnt even do the full series

i hope that the XL does work, it would be a shame for it too fall on its arse but im sorry we wont be entering any of the rounds as we have already got 2011 near enough booked up to what we want to do

Nobby

[Rightfoot]

I personally don't see the issue with class 3 trucks - in the last three years we have never been able to complete all the punches on any event, equally well we have always run out of time rather than punches!

Its not surprising that we are slower (sometimes much slower ) than some of the others but we put a full day in. Nobby is right that a couple of years ago it was frustrating hunting for punches, but that as when there were 40 vehicles and 40 punches. Last year with (I guess) about 20 vehicles a time there were no real issues with finding punches we could do. Half of the skill with a class 3 vehicle is choosing the punches that you can do.

We had a damn good time last year, and in class 3 it went right down to the wire as to who won. I actually like the competitive element of a series, its quite different from turning up at one off events.

I know the cost is mounting up, and I think most people complained about reducing to 4 events last year, maybe for some the jump back to 8 is too much - but (I think) the scoring is based on six rounds, so there is some flexibility to give the far flung sites a miss.

I'll admit our truck is a trayback, rather than a full bodied truck, but that wasn't the case in our first year. Yes you have to try hard to keep a full bodied truck straight, but it can be done. Also staying in class 3 helps us keep our costs down - no lockers, no uprated drivetrain, 35 inch tyres. I'm pretty sure our truck cost a damn site less than some of those competing in the Challenger series.

[team gunit]

people compete for the glory of a win and a £5 trophy, so they

attend events they think they can win..

HW is a national challenge set all around britain so travelling

is a needed. It is difficult and can be damaging to vehicles, but if

driven with care damage is minimised.

We did 2 years from nothing, we even asked neil what we had to do

on the first event at wellington in 2009 we had

never been to a challenge , and we finished 5TH LAST YEAR.

The team spirit, the camp and course walk the day before the event

and the bonfire are all part of it,

Mark