Workshop Doors

[Retroanaconda]

Okay, just playing with ideas here. Currently at a bit of a barmy with the workshop since none of the @%&$ing Land Rovers will fit through the door! It has an 'up and over' metal garage door that currently looks like this:

As you can see, when the door and the door frame are taken into account, I'm loosing about 6" of height from the door aperture. 6" that would enable me to get the cars inside! I've been looking for another place, and if I find somewhere suitable then that will probably be the best option, but in the far more likely case that I can't then I will have to make do with what I have. Either take the roof off each car I want in there (somewhat of a pain in the rear) or modify the building.

Looking at the picture above, you may notice concrete blocks on the left, a steel joist above, and a second steel joist (I-beam) vertically on the right. At the top of the latter is the remains of a hinge, so the building used to have hinged 'barn style' doors. My thinking is I can re-instate this, as it will enable me to recoup that ever-important 6". My plan is something along the lines of this:

Construction of the doors would be a frame of 75mm x 47mm treated timber, faced inside and out by 11mm OSB (frame shown on diagram above to illustrate this). Nice and simple, cheap as chips, and hopefully strong enough for the purpose. I would face just the outside to save on cost, but I'm doubtful if the frame would be strong enough without the bracing action of the OSB on both sides. The hinges would bolt through the steel beam on the right (will probably have to add some plates for a flush mount) and through the concrete blocks on the left. I'm hoping this will be strong enough for the purpose. Security wise, I would probably have one door that bolts into the floor at the bottom and into the RSJ at the top, and the other door bolt to that with one of those bolts you get on barn doors.

Costing it up, I think I can do it for under £200.

Banking on there being people on here more familiar with woodworking than me (ok...people that have some experience compared to my school days in the wood tech labs!), can anybody see any reason why my plan might fail? Any opinions of strength of the basic construction?

Many thanks

[fozsug]

Why not make the door frames out of 50x50x3mm box section steel, then clad with the osb on the outside only, got to be cheeper stronger and easier to make, give me a shout ,ive got lots off 50x50 and can knock up the frames if you need

Cheers

Tony

[bishbosh]

Wouldn't use OSB - carp when it gets wet.

I second the steel frame though, will be stronger and probably lighter too. If you are not worried about appearance, what about galv sheet cladding?

[landroversforever]

Basic construction looks good to me James. You could fill the air gap with some rockwool for a bit of warmth .

My only concern would be security

Could you make something like this door to close over the lot?

[landroversforever]

OSB will be fine for a few years if painted/sealed correctly.

here's a better pic of the above:

[carl hurst]

If you do make them out of timber like you say you need your diagonal braces to run from bottom hinge side to top centre to stop the top sagging, also it would be better if you could joint the corners with a mortice and tennon type joint to make it very strong, bin the osb and go for T & G match board, more resistant to weater when all treated, try to put a centre rail in so you can get a third hinge in,

Carl.

[landroversforever]

Depending on the jointing, it will be just as strong with the diagonal as pictured... it will just be in tension and relying on the joints more than if it was the opposite way and in tension.

going to Pimp a project of mine a couple of years ago :

[Diff]

I built 3 large doors for my last workshop. I used welded angle iron for the frames and diagonals and used 8' x 4' sheets of exterior ply stained with fence stain. Very strong and easy to make, and relatively cheap too.

Regards, Diff.

[carl hurst]

Depending on the jointing, it will be just as strong with the diagonal as pictured... it will just be in tension and relying on the joints more than if it was the opposite way

I you go to a pro joiners shop to make them it will allways be bottom hinge side to top centre, you could brace both ways to be shure,

Carl.

[Retroanaconda]

Interesting comments guys, most appreciated thanks. I am by no means an experienced metal or wood worker, so this is a bit of a foray into the unknown for me.

Surprised that you reckon that a steel construction would be cheaper, I guess it could be smaller (and lighter) material due to the increased strength though. Judging by online prices a 3m section of 50x50x3 mild steel is about £40, whereas in 75x47 timber it's only about a fiver! Galv. flat sheet is pretty costly too

I know OSB isn't the ideal outdoor material, but it would be sealed as necessary and to be honest...longevity isn't the main aim. The building isn't in the greatest shape as it is, so I'm reluctant to spend large amounts of money on it unnecessarily.

Carl, By T & G I assume you mean tongue and groove? As in clad it on the exterior face?

Tony, thanks for that. If I go down the box section route I'll give you a shout

Thanks all

[Mark]

James,

As has been said - run the diagonals the other way. You are welcome to come and have a look at the doors at mine if you want.

Cheers

Mark

[LandyManLuke]

Judging by online prices a 3m section of 50x50x3 mild steel is about £40

You're looking in the wrong place.

A full 6.0m length of 50x50x3 EA on Parker Steel is £19.26 ex vat, and my local steel stockholder will normally beat them on price.

Edit. Just realised box was mentioned rather than Angle, I didn't read it too thoroughly. Anyhow, 7.5m of 50x50x3 box is 33.66 on Parker.

[Retroanaconda]

I'll give my local steel stockholder a call tomorrow and see what they're chucking it out at. Would be a good welding project anyhow

Mark, thanks for that. I'm trying to remember what yours look like

I shall run my diagonals t'other way as suggested.

[Mark]

James - very much like your proposal!

Mark

[zardos]

The door supplied with my prefab garage are of a similar design to the ones you have drawn.

The main difference is they have a centre board at half height and with a diagonal in each half (all pointing to the centre)

with tongued and grooved on the outside.

e.g.

This is good for 1.5 cars width opening (more than the single width shown in the picture)

Construction was reasonably secure but increased by adding 12mm ply on the back just in case the managed to pull off or break through the outer layer.

PS you could just buy one made to measure Linky

[fozsug]

Surprised that you reckon that a steel construction would be cheaper, I guess it could be smaller (and lighter) material due to the increased strength though. Judging by online prices a 3m section of 50x50x3 mild steel is about £40, whereas in 75x47 timber it's only about a fiver! Galv. flat sheet is pretty costly too

Tony, thanks for that. If I go down the box section route I'll give you a shout

Thanks all

I pay £22 per 6.5mtr length,if you dont want to use OSB, i get good quality Far Eastern Ply 8'x4' sheets for £16.

Cheers

Tony

[nickwilliams]

A couple of tips based on experience.

If you make the frames out of metal, you will find it easier to fasten things to them if you make them out of angle rather than box section.

If you use wood (for the frames or T+G for the cladding) it will be hugely stronger and more rigid if you glue the joints as well as screw them.

Nick.

[daveturnbull]

I have exactly the same issue with the workshop at my new house. Having looked into making some side hung doors myself, pricing up the timber required, it works out about the same as buying these pre-made ones. Which is what I plan to do when I get that far down my list of jobs. Luckily they are the perfect size for the opening.

You will still need to buy the ironwork and paint separately, so budget for that too.

[Retroanaconda]

They do look like an easy option, and not too bad a price. Unfortunately they're about two feet too thin for the gap in my workshop's wall!

Working from this spec from the site zardos linked above, and people's comments on here, I've tweaked the design a little:

I think it should be okay. Slightly more timber involved, but should be stronger and three hinges will ease the load there too.

I think I'm going to go with a timber frame. Reasons being that I like working with wood and I fancy a woodworking project, and also my dad has all the woodworking tools required

Thanks to all who offered help or opinions regarding metal construction though!

[Jeff Young]

I'd go with 18mm OSB on the outside and skip the inside layer. Do glue and screw, though. The result should be good for about 10 years.

Jeff.

[Part1cle]

I had thought about doing the same to replace the up and over door as you, but using marine ply. I got hold of some second grade 3/4" that the timber merchant sold off cheap for shuttering etc. a while ago that I used for flooring in the roof of the garage.

I had a sort through a pile of sheets and found the best, the beauty of marine ply is that its water resistant and intrinsically strong. My plan was to screw equal angle to the back to make a frame and use some thin T & G as a facing.

Not got any further with it as it looks like we will be moving next year.....

[Orange]

Why not use some large dry-wipe boards screwed to the frame to stiffen it all up on the inside? If you find some with metal frames, you'll be surprised how much difference they make - also good for scribbling to-do lists or designs on.

If all else fails, just some boarding will help - you can always paint it with blcakboard paint and scribble with chalk...