mick and mag Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Pete and Ben slightly cross axled!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ive just looked at the promo dvd clip for the series and it looks cool, cant wait to see the whole thing, on another note i know there was some talk of guys from the challenger series having a go at the howling wolf last year, but as its not on this year what about the xl series, i know kirton might be a bit to far for some but later in the year slindon and west harptree are on. i think it might be a nice idea to show a bit of support. anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 whats the big difference in the challenger series compared to the xl and the old howling wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Pete and Ben slightly cross axled!! That punch was much easier reversing in on the other side, the bank of the gully even tilted you towards the punch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 ive just looked at the promo dvd clip for the series and it looks cool, cant wait to see the whole thing, on another note i know there was some talk of guys from the challenger series having a go at the howling wolf last year, but as its not on this year what about the xl series, i know kirton might be a bit to far for some but later in the year slindon and west harptree are on. i think it might be a nice idea to show a bit of support. anyone? We had a go at the last round of the HW last year and whilst we didn't do too badly, the atmosphere and inter-team spirit wasn't there... We proved to be a little slower than some in places and to be honest I got fed up with others sitting right behind me and in the way when I was trying to winch and/or manoeuvre. I understand it's a competitive event, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe 90 Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 well said mr orange. and well done every one looks like you all had a good event,see you all in june. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuman Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I would say the major difference between challenger and some other comps, is that it is aimed more to new comers, and is a good intro into the challenge scene. (Also much like the Mud Monsters comps)... This is not to say that they dont get some pros in,,, and also not to say that some bits are really testing. I would like to say tho that at all the comps i have been to, inc, Mud monsters, challenger, Howling Wolf and mike wolfe, the harder some one is trying the less time they have to help... but all in all every one is there for a good time and will help if they can.. or have to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 whats the big difference in the challenger series compared to the xl and the old howling wolf you get about 4 times the cars lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
najw Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 you get about 4 times the cars lol! And you have to travel further to get to them Seriously, I haven't seen how Paul is setting things up this year but in principal there shouldn't be a huge amount of difference. The XL is all one way section with two punches in each. Some of the sections are timed automatically between the two punches. The terrain and sections may be a little tougher, but knowing Paul I doubt it. Maybe the biggest difference, with no disrepect to anyone, is some of the sites are larger and more spread out with a variety of terrains across the series. But hey, why not come and try one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 id like to think i could get to one or two before the years out, in fact to do any event would be a good start. i like the one way in and one way out method for setting out it works really well at the mud monsters challenges, the only difference i can see though kelly is theat you need a fireproof crash helmet so you dont burn your hair when your on fire??? and a few other vehicle details, cage struts etc etc. to conform to msa spec or something like that, oh and then there is the ego factor but its already been said on this thread about the atmospher being great at the challenger series. so are you up for it then kelly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Personally I think the main difference between the HW/XL and the Challenger is the way the punches are laid out. The Challenger punches offer a range from relatively easy to stupidly hard - believe me the punches Paul lays out are not easy. They tend to be a bit more technical in nature, and baring this round just gone, they are very rarely just a straight slog through bonnet deep mud. The HW and XL format, as Neil says above is a stage with 2 punches in. Once in, you are committed to the stage if you want the 2 punches - the XL adds a time element to it as well. In the events we did it was almost like a giant trials course, but with some punches thrown in too... It means that a punch on the challenger may be assessed on it's own - and from my personal point of view are often more technical to get onto the punch. With the HW and XL format you commit the time to the stage, and whilst getting through the stage might require some technical winching and driving, actually getting the punch is often not as technical an issue as on the challenger. Whilst the Challenger series is aimed to get people interested in the sport, and there are punches that might be considered on the easier side, there are always plenty of hard ones too. From my point of view, I like the challenger format better - it seems to be a bit more open to personal choice and problem solving, as there are often many ways to approach a punch, whereas within a stage you are somewhat more restricted. Adrian and I prefer the techincal sections to muddy slogs, so the challenger suits us better. The social scene between the two events is often cited as a main difference - certainly the challenger events have a really friendly atmosphere, and whilst the competition is certainly healthy, most teams will do whatever is needed to help another team out if required. The HW does seem to become a little more fragmented in the park ferme, but there is a similar spirit between competitors that I have experienced so don't really think there is a big issue to be made. This is all based on personal observation, and not meant to be a criticism of Neil's team or of Paul's. Cheers Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 id like to think i could get to one or two before the years out, in fact to do any event would be a good start. i like the one way in and one way out method for setting out it works really well at the mud monsters challenges, the only difference i can see though kelly is theat you need a fireproof crash helmet so you dont burn your hair when your on fire??? and a few other vehicle details, cage struts etc etc. to conform to msa spec or something like that, oh and then there is the ego factor but its already been said on this thread about the atmospher being great at the challenger series. so are you up for it then kelly? i would be up for it mr whippy, but, there seem to be alot of stupid regs, which is probably putting others off too,and the dick mesuring element just doesnt appeal to me i dont do cliques. the mud monster ones are much closer too and no red tape and added expense. but i have to say my personal preference would be the challenger series for the mixture of punches that suit all capabilities and the general all round friendly atmosphere and not an ego in sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Looks like a hard day for the cars! Particularly this one: That pic is enough for me to rule out entering any round of the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 This site was different and there were only 3 out of 40 punches that involved water that deep... Although the majority of the other punches mainly involved either deep mud or quagmire - the site isn't called Muddy Bottom for nothing. The restrictions of the site are evident across the scoring range. Where we were averaging 30+ punches at each event last year, even the winner at this round only managed 26... The next round will be a lot different as the site allows more variety in the setting out department, so please don't let one event put you off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 it,d be a bit far for you to come anyway the price of fuel and all that oh well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 That pic is enough for me to rule out entering any round of the series. Why? That pic does not tell the whole story. First off you don't have to do it if you don't want to, the winning team only got 26 out of 40 punches, so you could steer clear of that one and still have enough punches to choose from. Second the first punch (the one in the picture) was not too deep with just the nose partly in the deep water and some people tried for the second punch via a different route instead of trying to cross the deep water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr whippy Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 its got to be said that a deep muddy puddle with a full bodied 90 in it does not really reflect the event(fair play to all involved by the way). however because of the nature of muddy bottom this type of punch was never going to be avoided. ive seen this type of punch at howling wolf and the mud monsters challenges before and looking at the xl vid clip at walters a similar deep muddy watery puddle and even at last years jst interclub. like it or hate it a deep muddy puddle with a punch in it will always be present at some point. apart from west harptree where the next challenger event is whoop whoop! so is everyone from the first event going and will there be some new arrivals???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richy B Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Pretty much agree with the above comments , We managed 15 punches that day and were very well entertained all day long Due to terrain on that patricular site yep is was quite a challenge allround for setting up and competing in, That was not a critisism, Just the way it was, Many of the other sites have challenging terrain for many reasons, and as stated in the drivers breif " you do not have to attempt a punch that you feel is beyond you or the vehicle etc---" As we new what was instore for that round we pre decided that we werent going to put the truck in a swamp UNLESS we had got all the other punches first So we were quite safe that day I feel the challenger/awdc series is a good allrounder, Very friendly and we have never been refused assistance in or out of a situation,, This is not to say it doesnt happen in other comps though, But ive not entered many other series P.S still washing the truck down though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 it would be good if dave explained why that pic would put him off, it may be just a phobia of (soap and) water or may be mud or maybe white landies or elbows, who knows , please enlighten us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I simply don't want to screw my truck up for months resolving all the problems that that depth of water, especially when stationary, can cause. I have far too many commitments already without needlessly adding to them. I only compete for fun and for a one day event that sort of punch looks unnecessarily damaging, especially if there's no prior warning given to the competitors. I don't have time to enter a full series so I just try and choose 1 or 2 small competitions when I have a free weekend. Given the number of possible events out there, 2 or 3 on many weekends, all I can do to choose between them is look at pictures and videos from previous events to decide which seem to be the more "sensible" events and organisers. In some cases I've already competed with the organisers so know pretty much what to expect but when I don't know the organiser all I can do is judge based on the information available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Sorry to cause the issue by posting the image up, I just thought it was interesting! I don't think it's wise to make a decision based on a single photo either. For the record, I agree with your principle Dave. I would NEVER take a vehicle into water that deep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKev Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 So Dave, you don't think perhaps that people only post the most interesting pics? Kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Seriously, Dave, with the site the way it was, I can understand why Ben and Pete went for that punch!! Waist-line deep water is a lot easier to clean off than the waist-line deep mud that was the rest of the site, believe me!! Also, you have to bear in mind the weather conditions presented to the organisers. No rain for approximately 2 weeks, so the site was better. Then, after setting out the site on the Saturday, the heavens opened over night and when we got back to the site in the morning we were presented with a whole different access road, let alone the course!! If you want to have a look back through the Challenger pictures from last year, you will see what the series is all about and how the organisers set it out. A rough idea is that there are 10 fairly simple punches, 20 mid range and 10 at the harder end of the scale. This obviously varies slightly at each event due to the conditions and the available areas of the sites. I do hope that noone who is considering entering the Challenger Series is put off by this one event. And I also hope that we won't be returning to the site... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j90 mud Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 i tend to agree with dave on avoidance of deep water. it damages the car.makes driver and co driver cold and miserable, if its at the start of the day. i usually avoid it as you have no idea whats under there and its usally dirty stagnent gloop as well. i have seen quite a few photos such as this recently and see little point in wasting time setting sections out with this depth of water. by all means use the edges or shallow water (where permmitted) including rivers for sections. i was at muddy bottom for the mike wolfe last year and the hole in question was deep and full then too and had 2 or 3 punches laid out in it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyv8 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 surely if your that busy considering traveling from north yorkshire on you free weekend to a predominately south based comp is a bit ridiculous, nevertheless ive had a think, and as your obviously not adverse to a bit of mileage have you considered a desert comp,bear with me here dave this could really float your boat (pardon the pun) the advantages : no water at all no trees reducing the risk of damage no mud, saves time washing it good weather disadvantages : bit far to go language barrier edit forgot to say we did have prior warning there was a sign there saying 'deep water'which pretty much covers it really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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