Hish Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Hi Guys, Really dissapoointed in my Insurance company but really p***ed off with the Spannish Mechanic who serviced my car before I set off to Switzerland from Spain. I put 2 new tyres, new oil, new filter then he dicided to pour about a litre of Anti-freez directly into the coolant tank !! I thought that is gonna hurt ! indeed, almost to Geneva and the car lost all the coolant and started to realease pressure from the coolant tank !! Well, it was all green underneath ! So I topped up with water just to carry on the Journey slowley til I get to Zurich. It then started to overheat after few miles of driving and then the Head Gasket went of course.. I have the top cover there is with LLOYDS of LONDON via IBEX spannish Brokers !! completely useless " DO NOT USE THEM " I have emails and details of my cover to say that I have a PRESTGE cover which has Repatriation, replacement car etc but when it came down to it they´ve said that the repair of the car would cost more than the car´s worth !!?? so I looked up in the second hand market a 1996 Discovery and it cost 4000 CHF almost 3000 GBP and found out that a new Head G and new coolant etc.. would be around 1500 CHF 1000 GBP .. too much but there is no choice ! So i argued with the insurance that their quote was rubbish and they should fulfill their oligations towards their customers especially stranded abroad with my wife .. anyway, they have left me in the lurch no hotel no replacement car etc.. I will have the car delivered in Zurich where i am staying temporarily (all the expenses are covered by me) then I look for someone to do it on the cheap side just to get it on the road as it is Taxed MOT´ed or even sell it here for little money. I am so stressed out with all this Insurance issues as it is a warning to everyone who thinks they are fully covered! well, water Pums, Timing belts, Hd-Gskt etc.. are the ones that leave you stranded even with a fairly new car and then your insurance would come up with this kinda carp.. the recovery guy told me this !! Remember IBEX in Spain / LLOYDS of London I have it all in writting but they just washed off their hands of us like dirt. Hish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Common way of topping up the antifreeze is to put it in the expansion tank and then let it mix with normal circulation as you drive the vehicle/ Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 14, 2011 Author Share Posted April 14, 2011 Common way of topping up the antifreeze is to put it in the expansion tank and then let it mix with normal circulation as you drive the vehicle/ Les. Yes Les, even me not being an expert on engins I knew pouring the A-freez down like he did and the amount wasn´t going to be good for the car. The damage is done now but that can be fixed, the issue is I am stranded in Sunny Zurich with it. Just had a call from the Isurance that it would cost them too much to repatriate the car !? well why didn´t they tell me that before they pocketed my €600.00 ? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I dont see how pouring straight antifreeze in is bad? As Les stated, its an easy way to top it up, in fact thats how I have always topped up mine... Sorry to hear about your troubles though. Good luck in getting it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 I dont see how pouring straight antifreeze in is bad? As Les stated, its an easy way to top it up, in fact thats how I have always topped up mine... Sorry to hear about your troubles though. Good luck in getting it back. Hey Quagmire mate .. well he did pour loads and it can´t be done just like that the engine needs to run for a bit with the cap off etc.. anyhow, it didn´t help as I travelled with twice b4 to Spain fully loaded with my stuff in the heat of the summer and believe me not a single trouble.. it is a very well maintained car always started first time even in the coldest of days so I know my car hence the he carp I´m going through to repatriate it or may be sell but I just don´t leave to the garage that recovered it. The worry here is how the Insurance dumped me with a fully compresive and European breakdown cover especially for that. They excuse was it would be too expensive to take it back to Spain or the UK ! so why insure me for all europe then? Anyway cheers mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 It would mix in fairly quickly the problem arises when you have above a certain % of antifreeze in the system, ethylene glycol antifreeze has a much lower heat absorption capacity than water, so it overheats and boils the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 We had similar one a few years ago with my little sister in France. Her Citroen AX blew it's head gasket in Northern France on the way to Lyon and her breakdown cover people said it was too much money to have the car fixed, repatriate it, or provide her with an alternative. In the end we had to pay to scrap the car in France and I had to drive through the night to pick her up and bring her to our Holiday destination (I was already there). Then we had to split our Holiday gear and two extra people between two already full cars for the trip home. I know this doesn't help, but it just shows how these recovery contracts don't mean jack when you have a really big problem. I just can't beleive they're happy to take your money and then leave you in foreign land with no way home. The only thing you can do is try and get it fixed locally and have the fight with your insurer when you're back home. Good luck! Just thinking, is not posible that an air lock was created by adding the coolant which in turn caused the engine to over heat? Or some other problem exsists that caused the loss of coolent in the first place in Spain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I know this doesn't help, but it just shows how these recovery contracts don't mean jack when you have a really big problem. I just can't beleive they're happy to take your money and then leave you in foreign land with no way home. The only thing you can do is try and get it fixed locally and have the fight with your insurer when you're back home. Good luck! Just thinking, is not posible that an air lock was created by adding the coolant which in turn caused the engine to over heat? Or some other problem exsists that caused the loss of coolent in the first place in Spain? Cheers Mate.. bang on.. everything you said is correct. The insurers were taking the mickey plus as they don´t know where this or that country is on the map !! This sort of leagal daylight robery really has to stop.. As for the engine of my Disco- no problems whatsoever in fact I bought it solely for it´s engine which was checked out by a mate of mine who is a very good mechanic. Travelled with it 3 times, twice to Spain fully loaded with gear / furniture home stuff and not a single complaint ! coolant, OIL etc.. no leaks, no need to top up for months ! Suddenly, this mechanic in OVIEDO spain decided to pour the liquid like water about more than 1 litre ! Monday I´ll talk to a couple of mechanics to get quotes etc.. we´´ll update on this one.. I don´t really want to let go on it I love this baby and the wife crazy about it too. Nice1 Hish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thys Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 This pouring of 100% concentrate has never made me easy, I premix to the 50% concentrate, and carry a 5 litre can of the pre-mix with the Disco, and 5 litres of engine oil, 500ml of diff/TC oil, 500 ml of ATF and 500 ml brake fluid, it helps if you are in the bush, away from service stations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanS Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 TBH, I can't see why putting 1 litre of neat antifreeze should cause any problem. The system holds 13 litres so an extra half litre of a/f (ie the difference between neat and 50%) is only about 54%. According to RAVE, "Anti-freeze concentrations greater than 60% are not recommended as cooling efficiency will be impaired." so 54% would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Hmmm All I know is that the car was running perfectly and running long distance with Temp- trouble even in the summer so why now, immediately after this silly service ? Anyways, gotta convine a mate of mine if would be happy enough to fly to Zurich for few days all expenses paid to sort out the H-Gskt and hopefully get it back on the road then back home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudslingger Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 hope its going ok and youve managed to get it fix typical insurance company happy to take your money but do not want to pay up up when it comes time to paying out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 If the engine is that good it really shouldn't matter how much anti-freeze it has in it, it's really not critical under normal operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Good point. Plz don't take this the wrong way mate but I would be happy to see what happens if I could try that demo on your engine with a couple of litres of pure Antifreez may be we all learn something new then. Cheers for the ineterest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 You mean pouring neat anti-freeze into the header tank to top it up? Happy to let you any time, did it myself last time I changed the coolant on the freelander, and the header is the main point for topping up the 109 so that gets it too. It's all just pipes and they're all connected together, it really doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Yeah F-Freeza.. mate, perhaps, I don't for sure but if you had done it then I take your word for it. As for the Insurance, a mate I just had on the phone (works for one of those vampires) told me that I should ask for either the value of the car or a full refund, simply coz they have accepted to insure the knowing it's age etc in the first place. The only thing he said that can be tricky is, this is what they might call stage 2 of a claim (I need to raise my voice and start the letters to Ombudsmen, FSA, Consumer Rights etc) a lot of these groups are useless but it might get their attention. It really did make me happy but I am not holding my breath.. he insisted on the fact that if they have insured me it is too late for them to say no to a repatriation especially the vehicle is not usable in a foreign country! Another mate (Mechanic) is also looking at how much it would cost to do all the work over here (if I were to pay for his flight etc.) and get it back on the road, then will let me know tomorrow. we'll see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooroy Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I think many of us have added concentrated anti freeze to the header tank and then run the engine for a while to ensure it all mixes nicely and no problems . Usually you have to drain off some of whats in the system to 'make room' - you didn't metion if this was/had to be done in your case . Because if not it would have meant the level was already quite low if it took a litre of AF - so there may have been a problem before you left . And the long drive brought it to a head. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 Well, he didn't drain anything ! I was standing there he literally poured around 2 litre bottle of green stuff ! so I thought then .. thissss gonna hurt ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 The header tank wouldn't hold 2-litres in my opinion, so either he drained the system down a bit in order to make room for the additional antifreeze, or your cooling system was low ain the first place (which he should have investigated). The cooling system on your engine is mostly self-bleed, but the plastic cap on the radiator should be removed, system filled until it overflows out of the radiator cap. You then replace the radiator cap and fill the header to the right level - job done I'm a mechanic and I have topped-up the anti freeze via the header/expansion tank pretty-much every time - possibly hundreds of times. No problem at all with doing it this way. I would say that a head gasket that is losing compression into the cooling system, will make the engine overheat, as the air prevents proper circulation of coolant, so your temperature guage would show hot - either all the time or erratically. Enough air in the system and the temp guage will show cold (hot air won't make the sender read as hot). I'm not siding with the mechanic, but putting neat anti freeze in the header tank will have no effect on the engine or it's failure, but if the coolant needed 2-litres to get the level back to it's correct position, then he should have investigated it and reported back to you. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dooroy Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I have often told drivers that a temp gauge that drops to cold needs investigation just as promptly as if it rises to hot . As Les points out if there is no coolant for the sensor to 'sense' then the gauge drops to cold . I have found that keeping a check on heater output is a very good indicator if you suspect problems . If the heater controls are set warm to hot and its putting out warm air as it should then you have coolant circulating . If it then goes cold you need to check - I know having the heater on when the day is warm can be uncomfortable but it can help to spot problems early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 If they aren't going to cough up the cost of repatriating then they should be paying to write the car off and dispose of it for you, that's what you are insured for. Get a quote ffroma local independant and tackle your insurers with that, failing that get the bits couriered out, buy some tools and get stuck in. My mate has a Disco and one of the bills it came with was a new head, all in about £850 for a garage to do it, if you DIY then perhaps half? Assuming a 300 TDi; New head, 300 TDi £300 New glow plugs £30 ish New/recon injectors £140 Gasket £15 Gasket set £20-35 Head bolts £15-30 2 gallons of antifreeze, £40 Valve springs, optional depending on mileage. You'll need a set of sockets, breaker bar and/or torque wrench, protractor, big can of WD40 (gets the old gasket off) big box of plasters and lot of tea-bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hish Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi again, A French work colleague whom I worked with few years back in Belgium & who happened to lives near the swiss border, he worked as a Mechanic for Renault a while back. He had a good look at the engine & he keeps saying that the Head Gasket is still intact ! we checked the inside the top bit near the Spark plugs but foud it very clean apart from a little excess oil ! As for the oil, on the bill there are 9,5 litres oil ! he tought it was excessive. On a French Land Rover site There is a whole thread about problems in the cooling system on the Disco especially TD5 Today we are going to get to the head gasket to see for sure if it was damaged or not. If not, then e suggested to take it to France or Germany for repair as you can imagine it will be much much cheaper ! I think, with all this agrow I will give it one last chance and if the total cost exceeds 1000 quid I ´ll put it up for sale here for 999.00 CHF which is about 600 squid and I already have someone interested at that price coz he is going to sell it as parts etc.. weird, I honestly thought the Hd-Gskt was the only problem as I was about to fly out a mate of mine from London to sort it out then drive it back. we´ll see what we gonna do today. Laterz Hish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 So where on your TD5 did your mechanic look to find the spark plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I'd be suspicious that Les has it on th ebutton..... the header tank was a little low, so instead of topping up with water and diluting the antifreeze ratio he used neat-pretty common thing to do, I have and many others in this thread with no problems. If it was low, then this could have been the sign that something was on the way out, not failed, but starting to, in which case your long hot journey was the final nail. Aside from the insurance company being complete numpties I think the only thing the mechanic can be called up on is if the tank was low he should have mentioned it and offered a coolant exhaust gas test or similar. Good luck with getting it fixed, t could be a lot simpler than it first looks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksmelly Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I didn't know insurance covered engine failures? Crashes, accidents, fire, theft - Yes. What insurance do you have that covers mechanical breakdown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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