orangebean Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 On the allegedly rebuilt rear RR diff on my hybrid there is 1-2 mm of lateral play on the input shaft. Whilst engineering sense says there should be none, maybe LR built in some kind of tolerance?! Assuming it's not meant to be like that, what are my chances of just tightening up the centre nut to reduce the play? I've a horrible feeling there's a rebuild/ replacement diff on the horizon and am hoping that's not the case cos I'd quite like to actually drive the thing one day and the engine/ gearbox rebuild has already taken forever. It's that low point in any project where you wonder why you started in the first place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Hancock Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 You are correct in that there should be no play in the pinion bearings and i have no doubts that the flange retaining nut will be tight so will not reduce the play you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That is basically the tail bearing thats going/gone. Use it ,,,and the movment can destroy prop U?Js and gearbox / Tbox ends as the play is transmitted through the drive traibn Unfortunately, changing head / tail bearings of even both is the job of a grown up and notr a enthusiastic DIYer It will also cause long term irrreparible damage to the CWO mesh and even when reset if its running like his for some time can easily = scrap CWP, so its all round bad news - You do NOT get this on a properly rebult diff, even after lots of miles More "Con" than "re" maybe ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangebean Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 That's what I feared. Another thing to throw money at. If you hadn't already taken the nick Nige then this really would be the Hybrid from Hell. 6 months into owning it and the furthest it's travelled is on the back of an AA recovery truck... Oh well, off to identify the diff and heading for the Wanted section, but still chanting the mantra "It's got a totally solid chassis, all of the body panels are new and it's got bills to prove that everything else has been refurbed" I'm about 20 seconds from slinging this on eBog as another one of those unfinished projects... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebel_eddie Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Send the diff to Crown differentials. It takes about an hour to remove a rear diff on the floor and a bit longer to do the front but will be worth it. I had a rear pinion bearing collapse on the motorway once on the way home by the time I found some ware safe to stop and inspect it was all over for the Diff. On the subject of Diffs:- Does anybody know where the special tools can be purchased from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 The tools are hideously expensive, Steve and I have bought or more often made the special tools esp the one for removal of the head bearings, which is near £500 to buy oh plus a extra £130 for the collars = £630 -Oh and erm its flimsy too, we had one of these at KAM and ir regularly fell apart and was repaired several times, OLD pinion Bearings can be a sod to remove they varnish and glue themselves to what was already an interferance fit ... My "Not Flimsy " version cost me slightly more than F all, with just machining time and an ebay purchase of the collars Homemade unit as above - How to : http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=65974&st=0&p=568488&hl=+bolt%20+puller&fromsearch=1entry568488 3 bolt flange home made removal tool - how to : http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=62472&st=0&p=542170&hl=+bolt%20+puller&fromsearch=1entry542170 However, if you have big, full and deep pockets : http://shop.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Other_tools.html None are cheap so be seated before opening link .....! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Don't waste your money having a two pin diff re-built, it'll cost you quite alot to have done and it'll still be a piece of cack two pin. Get a good second hand one, they're cheap enough, just use common sense when buying one - ie if the oils clean then chances are it's been looked after - if its dark and dirty its had a harder life, check for play in the cross pin. If you fit a locker or 4 pin then thats definately worth paying a proffessional to re-build it for you. If you want a friendly Forum discounted service then myself or Nigel from Hell can help you. We build diffs proffessionally too. Oh and bearings don't just 'collapse' the failure of a bearing occurs over a long period of time caused by neglect or high mileage wear or over a shorter period of time through shoddy workmanship/ill fitting of parts/lack of lubrication. A loose pinion nut can occur through again ill fitting of parts/incorrect torque settings or lack of split pin/thread lock. The amount of diffs i've seen that have been proffessionally re-conned by a mates mate who knows all there is to know is astounding. suffice to say most of these are all but scrap. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Got to agree with Nige here, whilst those with experience might make it look like child's play, it isn't. Diffs are very involved because all the bearings run with preload, that is a sort of running interferance fit. The Rover diff is similar to the "english" or Timken diff used by Ford in the 60s and 70s, if I told you that the section on diffs in an Escort workshop manual was longer than the section on rebuilding engines, would that give you some idea of how DIY unfreindly they are? Like plastering, one of the few jobs I'll gladly pay to have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 It takes about an hour to remove a rear diff on the floor Am I right in thinking that on Disco 1s they are imperial (well US) fixings 3/8" UNF IIRC so Imperial tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Pretty sure all Disco1/RRC/90/110 etc. use 3/8" UNF fixings on the axle casing to hold the diff in. Propshaft tool is mighty handy for taking them off, though a 9/16" (or 14mm) socket does the job too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Got the propshaft tool & imperial impact sockets... just hope the nuts aren't siezed on! Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Like plastering, one of the few jobs I'll gladly pay to have done. I like plastering! I just don't like cleaning up afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Came off fine, apart from the fact that some vandal had glued it on with silicone gasket! How does one remove that stuff? Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I have found the best tool is a wire brush attachment on the end of a drill, it doesn't damage the machined surfaces like a ham fisted screwdriver but you just need to cover the bits that you need to keep clean. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 you just need to cover the bits that you need to keep clean. Like the entire opening into the axle Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I normally just use a stanley knife blade.... carefully (well most of the time!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I tried a gasket scraper, but it didn't do much. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangebean Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 I tried a gasket scraper, but it didn't do much. Niamh Prob need some kind of solvent. I've used this with good results. The traditional gasket softeners/ cleaners like this are great for getting rid of the dreaded red hermetite but don't do much with silicon based stuff. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 some vandal had glued it on with silicone gasket! I'm beginning so suspect Land Rover themselves! That's 2 rear diffs pulled the week and both have the same black silicone gasket Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Land Riover themselves now don't use gaskets ! They use a black Glue STC something sometghing somethibng something - sticks them on far far better than a gasket ever did, I now have done this to all mine, and all the ones fitted to axles at KAM had this stuff too Yes, a bitch to remove best bet - go to siansburys and buy some siliconme remover - its drops off + wire brush a la Steves comment Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Build date of both discos concerned was '96 & EPC certainly makes no mention of any silicone gasket, 7316 diff gasket is what it tells me . The thing is that diffs are supposed to be bolted on not glued in place Sainsburgers would be a 100 mile round trip... Will common or garden bathroom silicone sealant remover do the job, or is there something special for gaskets? FWIW a polycarbonate rotary brush inb a drill did a fairly good job though getting round the studs was a person I'm not that keen on. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Diffs may well be bolted in place but they need something to stop the oil getting out! gasket sealant is now what Land Rover use in the factory because it works and those f/ing stupid paper gaskets don't. If it was Araldite i could understand your frustration! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niamh Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Oh the carp has advantages for the assembler... just not for the poor sod who has to strip it down years later. Niamh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 I've never had issues getting liquid sealant off... and I use it for almost everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 The studs are similar to wheel studs - in that they are a tight splined fit from the inside of the casing. You can just knock them in with a mallet or a soft metal drift to remove them, but bear in mind that 4 of them are longer than the rest (top 2 and bottom 2 if I remember right). A wire brush in an electric drill will get all the sealant off and leave a perfect surface for the gasket/sealant. On the subject of gasket vs sealant - I prefer RTV sealant, as you are pretty-much guaranteed to have an oil tight joint - even if the mating faces are slightly distorted or pitted through rust. It is a pain - having to seperate the parts/ clean it up afterwards, but the general idea is that the job was done right in the first place, so therefore having to take it apart again in the future is generally not a consideration. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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