countryman Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Gents advise please. The steering on my 89 3.9 feels a little vague and is inclined to wander if you don't make corrections gentle, also it is a little slow to self center. The vehicle passed an MOT in April and i have just got used to it but the wife drove it today and claimed "it nearly killed her" so i had better try to improve things. I have changed all ball joints except the drop arm which doesn't show any real wear, the steering box has been adjusted per Haynes there is fluid in the reseviour and the swivel bearings are ok. I drove a Disco 1 yesterday and have to admit the steering was a lot lighter and very quick to self centre. My queries are, could it be that the PAS fluid has lost its viscosity, is the PAS pump worn and not pumping with enough pressure, although the box has been correctly adjusted is the gearing worn?. Tyres new and correctly inflated. Any tips much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Get someone to sit in the car & rock the wheel back & forth against the slack in the system (literally flick it back & forth with a finger, ooo err), then crawl round following every joint from the end of the steering column to the road wheels and look/feel for play in the joints, sometimes you'll find a bit you missed, other times it's just that everything has a little bit which adds up to a lot. Other options if it's not play but is a fault - Is the fluid OK (topped up, not frothy, red colour not minging), is the belt OK, is the box bled (I've never had to use the nipple, jsut cycle it full lock to full lock with the engine running until the bubbles are out), are your tyres OK, are the bushes OK (EG panhard / radius arms)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Is your car standard height or lifted. A spring lift will always give the symptoms that you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have noticed recently that mine's a bit like that - the things that have gone through my mind are: Steering damper partially seized? Internal in the box or the pump - worn seals etc.? In my case the tyres, swivels and tracking are all ok... Still investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete The Biker Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The Rangie is fine.......... change the wife Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverbo Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The steering on my 89 3.9 feels a little vague and is inclined to wander if you don't make corrections gentle, also it is a little slow to self center. Had the same problem with my 1990 Vogue, shifted all balljoints, bushings, steeringdamper etc. to new parts, got a little better, but I still didn´t feel safe on the highway. A new steering box really did the job. Still not like driving a german car - but steady like an (very) old Volvo . Changing the dampers to Bilsteins removed most of the "I can feel every little stone on the tarmac"-feeling. You could give it a thought to mount the anti roll bars that came with the 1991-models. You´ll need new dampers, links and to weld on your frame, (thats why I didn´t...), but according to reviews from then, it was a great improvement to stability. /Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barriesheene Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The Rangie is fine.......... change the wife Pete Class Countryman. I had a steering box leak on a classic a while back. I bought a box from a scrappy which although didnt leak, did mean that you had to steer it " using the force ". Sounds similar to yours so I'd say if all else looks ok then maybe the box is a good bet. Dont know about the self centreing tho ??? P.s. The wife hated the classic with a passion but loves the P38 and its not even running at the moment ?? It must be a size thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveRK Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Before changing any parts check the steering toe-in. You should be able to judge by eye from standing at the front if it has excessive toe-in or toe-out. Too much toe-in will give the symptoms you are experiencing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Gents , Thanks for all the advice, Vehicle is on new standard springs, bilstein shocks and steering damper, superpro bushes, new Grabber TR tyres on front, Pirelli ST on rear, tyre pressurs correct. Will check all joints again as suggested, check for air in the system,and get tracking done How do you get toein ajusted? I am going to get swivel preload checked and adjusted, but would really like to learn how to do it myself. Is there a mechanic out there who would do the job and teach me at the same time, I live in West Sussex RH12. If anyone can help please contact me on 07780 552850. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverbo Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Before changing any parts check the steering toe-in. You should be able to judge by eye from standing at the front if it has excessive toe-in or toe-out. Too much toe-in will give the symptoms you are experiencing. Some people may have that "chromed sight" - TBO I was always unsure if it was aligned, 2 mm toe-in or 5 mm toe-out So I made a tool to get a more accurate measure. Cheap and simple - 15 mm copper-pipe, some solder, a 6 mm nut and a 6 mm screw. It´s the thingy on top of the toolbox: The pipe measures apprx. 126,5 cm (feel free to convert to imperial measures if you like ) Lousy soldering, I know that, but it works...use iron and weld instead if you like. Or epoxy glue. So down under the Rangie, place the stick between the inner back-edge of the rim. Adjust the screw to tight fit. Then measure the inner front edge - you get the idea. But as mentioned, this was only fine tuning, the new steering box gave the big difference... Regards Bo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasco Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have the same issue with my Brothers's Disco 1 presently... I changed what could have been possibly changed except the steering box... the issue with the Disco was it wandered to the right, so i changed the radius arms with ones which had the 3 degrees correction since it has a 2" lift, new terrafirma steering damper, ball joints, swivel bearings, etc etc.. yesterday i balanced the wheels and the wandering almost disappeared, but still there is no self centering. loosened the steering box nut at the top, got a lot of freeplay in the steering wheel, but still no self centering. now before i replace the steering box, i will reset the pre load on the swivels cause when i rebuilt them, i set the preload to 6kg. The manual says something between 1.5 to 2 kg, but on the net i found various article which said swivels should be set round the 6kg mark. now i will reset them according to Hayes manual specs and if the problem persists will go for the steering box which here in Malta cost round the 650 euro and honestly my bro is a bit Mildly miffed up with the issue and with spending cash on the girl ... probably will try and dismantle the present one perhaps it got an issue with some bearing but it's still a big ?? will let you posted when i do it ...good luck with your problem...would really like to find what the preload on the steering box should be after a rebuilt, but did not manage to find any info neither on the net nor in the usual manuals.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 have you checked the swivel preload, this can be a problem take all of the linkags off the hubs than turn them by hand, they should be about the same resistiance as lifting a bag of sugar, someone will be along to tell you the exact force needed with a newton gauge thingy but thats how i did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willfromsussex Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 YOu could disconnect the drop arm joint and see how the steering feels, and also disconnect the track rod to test each side on its own. My steering on mine is heavier than I'd like, and I know its down to the amount of assistance from my particular box. Did wonder if it was possible to dismantle the valve gear and mod it to be lighter (different torsion spring or something) Just been having a look at this manual http://www.scribd.com/doc/23074934/1995-Range-Rover-Classic-Repair-Manual-PART-II Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Gents, Have checked everything bar the swivel preload, which I will do tomorrow, but I suspect that at 130000 miles it is time for a new steering box. I will have to get a professional to do the job as beyond my comfort zone.I live in Rudgwick West Sussex so if someone can recommond a mechanic please post or give me a ring on 07780 552850. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 I am going to have a go at doing the swivel pin preload this weekend and having had a good look at the job last night I have a quiery that I hope someone can help me with. My RR has ABS and there is a wire, that I assume to be part of the ABS system, running down into the swivel through the swivel pin. My question is , how do I detatch that wire, and will I need to renew any seals once I have taken the wire out. Many thanks Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I am going to have a go at doing the swivel pin preload this weekend and having had a good look at the job last night I have a quiery that I hope someone can help me with. My RR has ABS and there is a wire, that I assume to be part of the ABS system, running down into the swivel through the swivel pin. My question is , how do I detatch that wire, and will I need to renew any seals once I have taken the wire out. Many thanks Nick That wire runs to the ABS sensor which is pressed into the swivel pin (the ring is on the outside of the CV's bell) - just lever the sensor up and out of the pin. The same system should be fitted on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverbo Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 ... and will I need to renew any seals once I have taken the wire out. Yes. According to RAVE you´ll need a new bushing for the sensor. This bracket is really a piece of [rusty outrigger] - stupid construction - but you can cut a slice in it (be carefull with the angle grinder), bend it to the side to get room for the socket, do the swivel job, and bend it back (that´s how i did it). There´s no load on the bracket except for the brakelines, so i don´t figure any harm done. Regards Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok quick up date. Tracking and toe out adjusted by ATS Horsham, very professional and helpful. Despite the tracking supposedly checked not long ago by another garage, ATS found that the toe out was in fact set to toe in so they reset. On leaving ATS steering noticably better. Today I changed the Bilstien damper for a DeCarbon damper and the self centering has improved no end. The next job is weekend to check the swivel preload. Maybe I will get lucky and won't have to replace the steering box but will checking all the little things first. Thankyou for all the advice it really helps. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 On an ABS model the top bearing is a RAILIo style bush and adjusting the pre-load has little effect on any wera in the bush. ALso the pre-load is very different depending on exaclty whish year you have, the Haynes only quoted the very early cars whish have high preload, one year in they introduced a rolling thrust bearing rather than a teflon one and reduce the preload by about 3/4, so check carefully what you have and doing it wrong causes expensive damage. For about £80 you can buy a return to centre sprung steering damper, anyone tried them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasco Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 If it might help...today i replaced the pas box on my brother's Disco. The replacement box was really much softer than the one fitted on, when operated by hand. On the road now the steering is much softer too. if you are going to work on the pas, i suggest you remove the cooling fan and the right hand side shock absorber turret. by doing so it will give you much more space where to work. you will also need some 1ltr of new oil and two new o-rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Well,the swivel preload was ok so its time to save up for a recon steering box. Having trawled about it would appear that there are is a great difference in the quality of the the recon so unless anyone can suggest a better alternative I was going to go for an Adwest box from Paddocks. Thank you for all the help and advice, as usual I have learnt much and saved time and money. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverbo Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 I found that the best offer was at mm-4x4.com - I bought a new box (Adwest), because exchange wasn´t really an option for me (I live in Denmark). But they do sell recon units as well, these are from Adwest too. Or maybe buying directly from Adwest was an option? /Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I bought an Adwest box directly from Adwest and it did not fit - it was quoted as the correct one but when fitted the box fouled the oil cooler pipes and within 50 miles had cut through the oil cooler pipe and my RRC dumped the sump full of oil. The genuine hose replacement is no longer available and so special hoses had to be manufactured by my friendly hydraulic hose supplier and fitted. The advice I have to offer is that in the same situation I would now get my own box rebuilt as then you are sure it will fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countryman Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 David, Thanks for that tip I live in West Sussex so I will have to look around for someone reliable to do the refurb. My main concern is getting a quality job done. I have heard of so many poor referbs it is difficult to know who to trust. Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wright Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I might suggest that you ask Adwest if they can do it - there is a design fault with the original boxes (something to do with a bearing moving) which they now accept and have developed a fix for (all this some 15 years after the first boxes were fitted - clearly there was no particular rush!) that is why they have tried to put all other rebuilders out of action. What you get from a standard rebuilder is new seals but NOT the modification - you will only get this from Adwest, so your resealed box will soon start to leak again. I gleaned this information at the Peterborough Show some years ago when Adwest were there pushing their new boxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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