Discovery 2 - end of an era?

[boaterboy]

Could it be that the Discovery 2 is the last in the series which could be described as a real enthusiasts Discovery?

Whilst no doubt the Discovery 3 (and onwards) is a most sophisticated and capable vehicle, is it now so complex that it is beyond the capabilities and means of many, or indeed most, to maintain in a relatively low-cost way?

Also, does the body / chassis construction of the 3 & 4 not mean that repair and modification is a lot less straightforward?

[inaine]

3 and 4's are still chassis cars so the repair side of things are the same.

But the 3 and 4's are indy suspension so not a real Landrover!

D2's are great, but have there issues

[BogMonster]

I agree. Everything on the D3 is a maintenance nightmare. If there are any old fashioned DIY enthusiasts for them, they will have to get a hell of a lot smarter. One reason I still have my D2

[JimAttrill]

Any vehicle where you have to take the body off to change a turbo or a complete engine does not get my vote.

[chrisbowler]

I have been working on Disco 3 vehicle now for over 4 years, before that I was an enthusiast and D2 was my limit of capability. I have done most things on D3 and will be lifting a body soon to change some air con pipes.

Turbos are not a body off job and engines out( TDV6 only) are the exception to the rule

I have to say that they are really not as bad as you hear. The mechanicals and routine maintenance brakes, clutches, oil changes etc are no more difficult than D2.

However the electronics do causes problems for the DIY mechanic - all I can say is find a good independant LR specialist and strike up a health relationship with them and I am sure you would be surprised how few times you need the computer!!!

Chris Bowler

PS The D2 will be around for a lot longer than the D1 given how well the body survives and I do believe that the D2 will probably outlast the D3 in the long run as an enthusiast car.

[redneck]

I have done most things on D3 and will be lifting a body soon to change some air con pipes.

[Boydie]

Oh how smug am I !!!!

When I looked around for a reliable 4x4 to take me and my partner around Australia as well as regular forays into the bush on hunting safari's I first decided on the Defender but considering the distances I will be covering, for example Bullaburra to Lake Eire this Christmas break - a distance of over 1500 kilometers, I opted for the more "comfortable" Discovery.

Next was the decision as to the model, I'm a better than average DIY mechanic and since owning the Disco I've changed every suspension rubber, universal, diff bearing and ball joint as a total service but the electronics on modern vehicle melt my brain so the model I chose had to be mechanical and repairable by me in the bush if it brake down and secondly considering the fuel costs and simplicity the chosen power plant had to be diesel, ergo I looked around the used car guides and I purchased a 1999 300 TDi.

The Disco as original was a slug, a local diesel specialist has altered the injection timing and increased the boost injection quantity and the results are amazing, the next step before we venture around Australia will be to ditch the ZF auto and replace it with a R380. The second step was to pay to have an auto electricial mechanic strip out and remove all the unrequired wiring and, looms for auto headlight levelers, sunroofs, rear A/C etc. as well as the air bags and anti-lock breaking. I recon we reduced the bare weight by over 20 kilos and 5 kilometers of excess wiring.

I guess one thing in favour of Australian second hand 4X4 vehicle is a lack of salt corrosion, apart from the occassional vehicle used to launch and recover sea going pleasure craft none have any salt damage and the body and chassis on mine was perfect when I got it.

s

[jiginc]

before we venture around Australia will be to ditch the ZF auto and replace it with a R380

My understanding is the auto is a much stronger box than the R380 !!!!

[FridgeFreezer]

My understanding is the auto is a much stronger box than the R380 !!!!

That's an internet argument waiting to happen...

Autos are kinder to the drivetrain but there's not much to chose between the 4HP22 and an R380, in my personal opinion manuals are a more "combat proof" box in that you can nurse a damaged/abused one along more easily.

[Boydie]

Possibly so --- if you have time to pour a coffee and eat a snack while waiting for forward motion to take place but I'm 63 and I really dont have that many years left but the other thing is that I can solve most mechanical gearbox issues and replace a clutch, I simply dont understand the workings of a ZF and how to cure any maladies that might raise their ugly heads from ot miles from the nearest service point.

I understand the weakness/fault of the splined shafts and the need to cross drill the gear cluster to increase the lubrication (and additional cooling) oil supply, in fact before I even heard of this problem I did the same to both differential housings to increase lubrication to the planetary and drive gears as a matter of course based on practice from my days preparing rally cars.

Even so given your and other comments I'll give the Disco to the Sydney ZF dealers to see what they can do to improve its performance before I finally decide to convert it into a boat anchor. Even I have to agree that on sand its great, on bush tracks with reasonable wheel ruts you can pop it into low range, select low gear, get out and and go for a stroll and the Disco toddles along behind like a faithful puppy at 2-3 KPH and when I do occassionally venture into Sydney the constant gear changes in the stop - start city traffic would be a drag.

[boaterboy]

I posted this topic in August 2011.

Since then I've seen little or nothing about D3s & D4s.

Are they proving so reliable and maintenance free that owners do not need to go on the forum?

Or, are they proving so expensive / complex to repair and maintain, ie beyond the DIYer, that they are all going into garages for attention?

[Simon_CSK]

I posted this topic in August 2011.

Since then I've seen little or nothing about D3s & D4s.

Are they proving so reliable and maintenance free that owners do not need to go on the forum?

Or, are they proving so expensive / complex to repair and maintain, ie beyond the DIYer, that they are all going into garages for attention?

I think we as the "DIY enthusiasts" are the ones that are antiquated. Kids growing up will be more used and conversant with the electronics than we ever were. Think about when injections systems were first introduced that was when they said DIY car maintenance was over but I have had EFi range Rovers and looked after them for many year. No so lond s you have access to a computer connection kids and I use the term as anyone more than 10 years younger than I should be able to get to grips with Disco 3's and 4's

I will just go to the garage or drive older cars either that or wait until my sons are old enough to drive and get them to sort the car out !!

[JeffR]

I posted this topic in August 2011.

Since then I've seen little or nothing about D3s & D4s.

Are they proving so reliable and maintenance free that owners do not need to go on the forum?

Or, are they proving so expensive / complex to repair and maintain, ie beyond the DIYer, that they are all going into garages for attention?

seen quite a few on the back of recovery trucks.....

local traffic cops hate the buggers - too complicated and far too many electronics

[boaterboy]

Good points, Simon.

Think I must be just showing my age!

[Nigelw]

none of the jobs in my opinion are beyond the capabilities of a capable and competent enthusiast.

I disagree. The incredibly clever/incredibly stupid* design (*delete as applicable, depending on whether you are the design engineer or the hapless bugger that fixes it) means that everything is so tightly and well packaged to save space that you have to take the body off for several things including taking the engine out. It can be done without doing that, but the only bloke I've ever seen try it spent two weeks doing it and said he'd take the body off next time as it would be easier!!

Now I could happily tackle anything in my workshop on a Defender and probably a D2 (though a gearbox change on the latter would be difficult) but no way I could de-body a D3 in there without a ramp or an overhead gantry, which I doubt many home repairers would have. Yes you could gear up to do it, but it's hardly what you would call DIY in the sense most of us would talk about DIY home maintenance.

The stuff you can reach can all be fixed by somebody with a diagnostic computer and a bit of nouse, but there are things that need big boys toys to get at. Routine maintenance is not an issue, though getting under it is - you'd need drive on ramps to get at anything, and therefore the roof clearance to use them, which means a taller than average garage. I could do that in mine as the walls are 3.5m high, but your average domestic garage is probably no good. I'd also guess that setting up the independent suspension is not that easy, and you need to do it if you pull it to bits for changing bushes etc. No such problems on beam axles.

[Simon_CSK]

dieseldog69[/url]' timestamp='1314682846' post='603894']

I disagree. The incredibly clever/incredibly stupid* design (*delete as applicable, depending on whether you are the design engineer or the hapless bugger that fixes it) means that everything is so tightly and well packaged to save space that you have to take the body off for several things including taking the engine out. It can be done without doing that, but the only bloke I've ever seen try it spent two weeks doing it and said he'd take the body off next time as it would be easier!!

Now I could happily tackle anything in my workshop on a Defender and probably a D2 (though a gearbox change on the latter would be difficult) but no way I could de-body a D3 in there without a ramp or an overhead gantry, which I doubt many home repairers would have. Yes you could gear up to do it, but it's hardly what you would call DIY in the sense most of us would talk about DIY home maintenance.

The stuff you can reach can all be fixed by somebody with a diagnostic computer and a bit of nouse, but there are things that need big boys toys to get at. Routine maintenance is not an issue, though getting under it is - you'd need drive on ramps to get at anything, and therefore the roof clearance to use them, which means a taller than average garage. I could do that in mine as the walls are 3.5m high, but your average domestic garage is probably no good. I'd also guess that setting up the independent suspension is not that easy, and you need to do it if you pull it to bits for changing bushes etc. No such problems on beam axles.

s

DD

Taking the body off to change the engine of clutch the seem like a challenge beyond the competence of the average DIYer and as I am considering a chassis swap on my Disco 2 I may get the opportunity to discover just how much of a challenge but my view is if you are capable of pulling the car to bits a method of body removal will be found even is it means getting 10 burly friends to grab a side each and lift. After all the body is designed to be removed unlike the disco 2 so everything will be set up.

I will lay odds that given 5 to 10 years and there will be discussions on the forums about this very subject.

[Nigelw]

DD

Taking the body off to change the engine of clutch the seem like a challenge beyond the competence of the average DIYer and as I am considering a chassis swap on my Disco 2 I may get the opportunity to discover just how much of a challenge but my view is if you are capable of pulling the car to bits a method of body removal will be found even is it means getting 10 burly friends to grab a side each and lift. After all the body is designed to be removed unlike the disco 2 so everything will be set up.

I will lay odds that given 5 to 10 years and there will be discussions on the forums about this very subject.

No I'm not saying it won't happen, I am just saying that as the way I work on my cars is mostly on my own and maybe a mate to help if he has time, yes I have de-boddied a RRC and a D1 both for chassis replacement, and I actually did it on my own with use of a neighbors HIAB for the Disco but the RRC I was forced to get my mate to help and between us two blokes and two 15T bottle jacks and various blocks and eventually 4 45Gal barrels filled with water and 4 lengths of 4"x4" we rolled out one chassis, rebuilt the axles and drive line onto a new chassis and rolled it back under it, so I am not new to facing extraordinary challenges but I have bought other peoples cast offs and some from supposed enthusiasts and they struggle to change the oil at a sensible interval, one bolt and about 30minutes work, cen you see them going to that trouble?

[Boydie]

Humm okay well I proved myself wrong, since my original comments back in August 2011 I've stuck to the ZF4HP22 and dropped the thought of fitting a manual to the degree of having Ashtons airmail me out one of their specials, it goes in next week. After well over 130,000 k's over most of the australian Interior (mostly desert) I can vouch for the auto over the manual, especially driving over 30 meter high sand dunes - over 1000 of them going from Birdsville to Dalhousie Springs! The original auto just managed the strain hense the call to Ashton"s and the new box. I run a Eaton Detroit Tru-locker diff in the front axle and an eaton Detroit Locker in the rear, the gear driven diff in the front ensures that the turning isnt too hard while having constant drive.

[JimAttrill]

Sounds good - many of the auto boxes here fail because they are used to tow heavy stuff like horseboxes when it is hot and the oil gets too hot. Apparently DXII oil degrades at over 120c. We recommend and fix DXIII synthetics which help a lot. And it doesn't cost much more.

I have the Detroit locker in the Salisbury of my Defender - I didn't know they made one for the Disco rear axle. I know a guy with two Tru-lockers in his Disco and he reckons it is fantastic.

[Boydie]

Yes, the Tru-Lockers being helexical geared are a constant locked but geared differential so there isnt any "snap" when the locker comes in, the Detroit "Locker" diff in the rear is a spring loaded dog tooth assembly which is either on or off and would result in very tired arms if it was installed in the front.