disco2hse Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Not sure how it might work there, but here you can get a certification plate from a registered vehicle inspector/engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Here, most probably, I'll have to show a Land Rover produced document stating that my vehicle (this vehicle in particular) can tow 2 tons, which will never happen... so my last resort is showing them LR literature stating exactly that... Regards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 According to the manuals for a 1980 Series II (88" and 109" wheelbase) the weights are as follows: Max. Permissible Towing Weights On-road Off -roadkg lb kg lbTrailers without brakes 500 1100 500 1100Trailers with over-run brakes 2000 4400 1000 22004-wheel trailers with continuous 3500 7700 1000 2200or semi-continuous brakes, i.e.coupled brakesRead more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?319640-How-much-will-a-1970-SWB-landrover-tow&s=53c6652cba3a8a4c090de77759689a09#YqcRyHTfefMr5YbS.99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 Thank you very much! That could be a huge help... I don't have that manual... does anyone have it or know a place to download it? or indeed if it's still available to be bought... Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I don't have one for the series 3, but the series 2 instruction manual is here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Thanks! The only page I see ref. towing seems a copy of the "Optional Equipment" page... I'd love to have the page where the info tacr2man posted... If anyone has a SIII manual or know where to find that page, I'd be much appreciated! Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 On page 04-12 of the Series III Repair Operation Manual is the following in the attachment. 04-12.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Brilliant!!! So many thanks!!! I've now got 2 distinct sources that I can show as proof. Hope they accept it... Thank you all again for the help you gave me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Good luck. Let us know if you need more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 On page 04-12 of the Series III Repair Operation Manual is the following in the attachment. This matches my french series III 109. It states 2000 kg on overrun brakes. My Ford transit does 1800 kg on overrun brakes a Nissan Patrol, Kia Sorento (2007), Land Rover Defender 110 will all tow 3500kg on overrun brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 This matches my french series III 109. It states 2000 kg on overrun brakes. My Ford transit does 1800 kg on overrun brakes a Nissan Patrol, Kia Sorento (2007), Land Rover Defender 110 will all tow 3500kg on overrun brakes Remember though, that is a single axle trailer. Tandem axle is 3500kg. Over here, the authorities regard the coupled braking system as the same as overrun. The only difference is that with overrun, you have to use two safety chains and with coupled brakes, you cannot have safety chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Remember though, that is a single axle trailer. Tandem axle is 3500kg. Over here, the authorities regard the coupled braking system as the same as overrun. The only difference is that with overrun, you have to use two safety chains and with coupled brakes, you cannot have safety chains. don't believe it works like that in France (it doesn't in the Netherlands for sure) On the otherhand, I don't see my old 2.25di pull > 2000kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2hse Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 don't believe it works like that in France (it doesn't in the Netherlands for sure) On the otherhand, I don't see my old 2.25di pull > 2000kg. And, new cars have brakes that work a whole lot better than something built pre-1980. It is not how much it can pull, it is how much it can stop, safely. Patrols, Sorrentos, 110's, and include Cruisers (except Troopies), all have disc brakes. Your series will have drums unless it has been upgraded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 And, new cars have brakes that work a whole lot better than something built pre-1980. It is not how much it can pull, it is how much it can stop, safely. Patrols, Sorrentos, 110's, and include Cruisers (except Troopies), all have disc brakes. Your series will have drums unless it has been upgraded. True, but the brakes on the last of the Series were quite good. I used to use the 109 to tow some quite heavy loads - 3 tonnes +/-. Stopping was never the problem, in the once case where a car pulled out in front of me and then stopped (idiot), I was able to lock up all eight wheels. Servo assisted 11 inch front twin leading shoe brakes on the front axle are perfectly adequate, so long as you aren't cooking them coming down mountains. Sure, vented grooved disks would be nice, but I'd much rather more power for going UP hills, given a choice. Oh, and my 109 was rated for 4000kg towing weight and gross train weight of 6700kg, according to the plate fitted to it in the factory. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I doubt an aftermarket non-LR approved disc brake upgrade would be accepted as a means to up the towing weight of a Series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 This matches my french series III 109. Would you be able to post / send / ... a picture of that page of the owner's manual? Although I've already sent the documents to the national authority, I'm still collecting "evidences" as they may be need in the future if an argument arises... From all I've read, except in the internet foruns where some inconsistency has arisen, the official LR books say the same (as tacr2man stated) * 500 kg without brakes * 2000 kg max. recommend, braked trailer with standard LR equipment * 3500 kg with optional towing equipment, if trailer has 2 axles and coupled brakes It seems, though, that som LR (with optional equipment????) have been plated for 4000 kg... Thank you all for all the input. It was valuable and hope in the end it makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 My series 109 french vehicle registration list as: 1367 kg empty ??? 2765 kg full 4765 kg max train however all numbers indicate they didn't have a clue and just put something on paper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepé le Pew Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I don't know what it is like in the rest of Europe, but in Holland a series Land Rover is allowed to pull 2000Kg max and there is only one approved towball for series Land Rovers. This one from BRINK which is rated at 2000Kg. ​ The towball will not fit a militairy rear crossmember. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm quite sure my old 109 Stage One V8 was plated for a four ton trailer, as was my older Series 3 diesel. With the latter, I actually did tow four tons (with a 2¼ inch towball) and brakes weren't a problem because it didn't reach speeds which tested the brakes at all - i.e. I could stop very strongly. The Stage One was capable of much higher speeds with a heavy trailer but, in either case, I'd have avoided any big downhills with that weight because I know how freaky brake fade can be (a 1950 bus with vacuum brakes on some big New Zealand hills). Of course, coupled brakes overcome that to some extent, if you are brave enough to rely heavily on them. I have also towed a five ton horse truck up quite a steep hill with a Series 3 88" (an emergency situation, it was stranded on a blind corner), which it did deceptively easily - deceptively because it broke a half-shaft a few weeks later. Conversely, I have towed large loads (such as a car on a transporter) with some modern vehicles, such as my work-supplied Mitsubishi 4WD, and found the experience very unnerving, despite having more power and vastly better brakes. Twitchy power steering with little feel, over-sensitive brakes, suspension not designed for it and the ability to build up speed too easily all contribute. What I have learned from all this (law aside) is that the inherent stiffness of a Series chassis, their brakes and steering that require a firm input and the lower speeds involved make these cars very suitable for towing heavy loads, especially as you can call on a whole lower set of gearbox ratios. My one big caveat would be to beware of brake fade on big hills but, really, if you have to tow heavy loads up and down big hills you should be using a truck. I also recall, when I was interested in big loads twenty years or so ago, that the way to go was using electric brakes. I have absolutely no idea how they work but it could be worth a search? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 6.7 tonnes in total. I've exceeded this once or twice (off road your honour) and, while anti social, was manageable. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Talk about a simple question and complicated answers... Having had the same vehicle immatricultated in 3 different countries (UK / NL / FR) gave 3 different sets of ECW / MAM / MTW over the past 30 years gave me some insight how these things work and in short: they don't. Depending on where you live, how the vehicle is immatriculated, what tow bar is fitted, what engine you have makes all the difference. Below some scan from the Series III Owners Handbook and it makes interesting reading - hope this helps. Here in France, our SWB diesel Series has a MTW (Max. Allowed Trainweight (Vehicle + trailer) 4.646 kgs. - leaving 3.500 kgs. for the trailer if fitted with overrun brakes. Regardless of the fact that LR themselves state in the handbook that 3.000 kgs. is max. Regarding "type approval" for towbars. Depending on where you live, how the vehicle is registered and in what year you may - or may not - fit anything with a 50 mm. ball. Or jaw in certain countries. But the questions is, obviously, if towing 3.5 tonnes with a Series Three 2.25 diesel is wise in modern traffic.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xychix Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Here in France, our SWB diesel Series has a MTW (Max. Allowed Trainweight (Vehicle + trailer) 4.646 kgs. - leaving 3.500 kgs. for the trailer if fitted with overrun brakes. Regardless of the fact that LR themselves state in the handbook that 3.000 kgs. is max. Regarding "type approval" for towbars. Depending on where you live, how the vehicle is registered and in what year you may - or may not - fit anything with a 50 mm. ball. Or jaw in certain countries. But the questions is, obviously, if towing 3.5 tonnes with a Series Three 2.25 diesel is wise in modern traffic.. in that case.... my numbers (.france also) might add up to: 1367 kg empty ??? 2765 kg full 4765 kg max train 4765 - 1367 = 3398kg trailer. But then that would assume it runs on diesel vapour, doesn't have oil and there's no driver Depending on where you live, how the vehicle is registered and in what year you may - or may not - fit anything with a 50 mm. ball. Or jaw in certain countries. But the questions is, obviously, if towing 3.5 tonnes with a Series Three 2.25 diesel is wise in modern traffic.. Additionally Loxam wouldn't allow my to pull a 2 tonne mini-digger on a trailer with my dutch Sorento (2800kg allowed in NL) as i only had a towball withouth the yellow clamb on top they seem to use in France. But that's a bit off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 3 Tonne with a diesel is not fun, and is anti social. Which is why my next task on the 109, once I get the workshop finished (starting on the doors today!!), i plan on putting the turbo back on the 200di. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Don't we love rules & regulations.... We have some nice plates near the towballs that clearly state 3500 kgs. max. - usu. quite enough the Police / Gendarme to convince, together with all the paperwork, we're legal. Having our own 3-axle trailers also helps. We stopped renting stuff here as it is nothing but problems, they don't like you taking things abroad, etc.. The 110 got somewhere in the process a MTW that requires a HGV licence - which we have - to drive so that will be used to tow everything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriesossaurus Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Thank you Arjan for these pages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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