steve_a Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Took part in the mini challenge with HBRO today and probably the first major outing for the 90 since I put some new pro-comps on in Jan/Feb. The previous rear shock had snapped off at the top eye, but I more put it down to age and rust etc at the time, they were about 2-3 years old. Checked the truck over when I got home and the new one has snapped in exactly the same place. I have yet to have a look at it in detail, but first glance the welding looks pants. luckily I still have the receipt and I also have my repaired shock from before (I welding all around rather than what ever pro-comp are doing). Do you reckon paddocks/pro-comp will replace it, or preferably replace both as I like to have them of the same age, although they are so new in this case it probably doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Hiya Steve, This is an interesting one, could it be that you were allowing the axle to use the bottoming of the shock as the "Stop ?" Also are these increased in length, as the longer you go the worse the shear forces / angle seem to get on the shocks, as the axle moves in an arc. I have moved my top shock mounts and changed the angle to make it less extreme at full extension, also fit some soft blue polybushes, it allows more movement and also allows them to reduce the tear / shear angle as the busgh deforms, lastly don't do the bushesd up as tight as you might as standard, all helps it top move FWIW I think they are supposed to be lifetime warrnaty, but they are as cheap as chips, but definately worth a try esp as you have the recipt, reasson for the above is if you do this is makes a huge diference nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathtub Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Ive never brocken a pro-comp & i think that theres not many people that give them more **** than me. I agree with nige i think you have got your travel a little ****ed up Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Seen quite a few breakages of procomps over on mud-club forum, all were replaced on lifetime warranty. Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Seen quite a few breakages of procomps over on mud-club forum, all were replaced on lifetime warranty.Cheers Steve Personally wouldnt bother with them i think they're pretty inferior try some OME or TJM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 This thread is of great interest to me as I have just invested all of my money ( and a lot more thousands that I am yet to arrange ) in importing a rival brand of shock to ProComp in from the States made specifically to suit LRs for me...... ProComp will almost certainly change it for you. The main difference with the shocks I have imported is with the mounts - a noted weak point on the ProComp shocks. Check that the shock is not bottoming... 2" drop brackets and +2" shocks is a knackered shock just waiting to occur if you have not packed the bumpstop by a good 3" - unless your choice of bright yellow / blue spring saved the day by getting horribly coilbound before the shock bottoms. Check that the bushes have not been overtightened leaving no 'wobble' in them - this will put forces on the metal of the shock that will lead to a stress / fatigue break. On my Rough Country shocks I have had a steel sleeve put through the bush to prevent overtightening. Whilst looking at the top bushings / mounts remember that those 2 little cone bushes used on a ProComp were designed in about 1953 for use on the 86" which never had or was meant to have to arc through such an angle as a modified coiler - the answer lies in ( as LR themsleves have done ) using a one piece pressed in bush of a much larger diameter. Also check that the washer you put on to the mount just before the but is placed with the dome side facing the bush not the nut! This is a very common mistake that will lead to the bushings losing most of the little angle they can cope with!! Whilst you are on heck that you have not overtightened the stud type mountings all round or they will be next to break off - change the normal nut for a nyloc so you can leave it just pinched tight on the rubbers without fear of it coming loose. Again a shouldered stud will avoid overtightening ans has been fitted to OE shocks for years..... I firmly believe ProComp are excellant value for money shocks but I think the time has come for some of their little faults to be corrected hence my importing of Rough Country shocks... David LLAMA 4x4 - UK importer of Rough Country shock absobers Rough Country home page in the States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 David, Interssting Will rough country do the extra long shocks that procomp do but it seems not many others ? Would be interested in any tech info ie eye eye or eye loop, max extension max closed lengths canister length rod OD type of shock build etc etc ? PM me if you need my e-mail addy Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Yeh, me too David. The ProComps are good VFM but pretty disposable. Be interrested in some pin/pin ones to use with some of Gwyns mounts on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Yeh, me too David. The ProComps are good VFM but pretty disposable.Be interrested in some pin/pin ones to use with some of Gwyns mounts on the back. I've got just over 50 coming on the ship as we speak just for that application..... I air freighted some stock in for the shows that arrived just in time for Malvern and will be at Peterborough next weekend but that was only Std and +2" sets- There is another 715 units on their way but that weight needs to come by sea simply to remain viable!! Speak to you soon David LLAMA 4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Pro comps do a +5, these are what I run all round and these are what I am after or even +6 maybe ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Pro comps do a +5, these are what I run all round and these are what I am after or even +6 maybe ?Nige The nearest to this I have on the way is a stud / stud fitting that is 26.5" extended and 15" compressed giving 11.5" travel. This measurement is taken from the base of the stud to the base of the stud. They are effectively a +5" extended length. I also have some brackets ( Gwyn's stuff ) to allow them to be used on the rear aswell getting away from the need for the top bush to flex more than it can! Realistically these are not going to be with me from the States for another 4 weeks............. David LLAMA 4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 David,Interssting Will rough country do the extra long shocks that procomp do but it seems not many others ? Would be interested in any tech info ie eye eye or eye loop, max extension max closed lengths canister length rod OD type of shock build etc etc ? PM me if you need my e-mail addy Nige this is an aye-aye. usually they are cute, but this one ain't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 I run Gwyns kit on my 110 with +5 ProComp shocks. Works very well and no broken shocks. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkie52 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Had this on a pro-comp 2" lift kit shocker from MM 4x4... Sent it back with ****ty letter and never heard f**k all back from them... no refund or replacement!! Have never bought from or recommended them again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 3, 2006 Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 Maybe I am being unfair, but if the top eye on the procomp was welded all around it would have loads more strength from my limited knowledge. The standard welding is a pretty small area from what I can see, don't even know how the do it, a friction weld or something? The glance I had at the shock it looked v clean on the eye. I am going to get it off and take some pics tomorrow. I am a bit abusive on the suspension set up - procomps are supposed to have a built in bump stop and I have 2" droppers on the back, so I have left the standard bump stops on. I figured if it exploded it served me right and I would buy some new ones, but the shock is still good, it's stuck up against the floor pan at the mo as it still expands! Maybe I am expecting too much, and I need to look at lessening the forces, however I will be interested to see if my mended one lasts longer than my new one - and my welding is pants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Steve, I really think you need to check the shock movements. Remove one spring and wheel, and jack up to bump stop, see if you can without shocker fully compacting - if you can't then theres yer prob Have a funny feeling maybe as per 1st post ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 What length are the rear shocks?? Are they +2"?? You say you have droppers fitted ( presumabbly 2" ). With all the luck of 2 dogs with 2 tails if you have extended the compressed length by that much you are going to need thicker bumpstops to keep the shock safe..... You can get away with eating a full 1" into the bumpstop LR gave you. What model LR is it by the way? If you have +2" extended shocks then you 1" safety margin has been eaten up by them so the whole 2" drop bracket will need to be compensated for as packing under the bumpstop..... I must have looked at at least 50 or 60 broken shocks ( mostly, but not entirely ProCompo ) over the last couple of years and the reasons are almost always the same: Broken off stud = over tightening of bushes Broken off ring = over compression of shock ( nealy all ) over articulating of bush / washer fitted backwards etc. ( a fair few ) If it happens once then a fault in the unit is possible. If it happens over and over again then something is breaking it........ Whilst I have joined in the criticism of ProComp to a degree that I have put everything bar the family home on the line to import a rival ( IMHO better ) brand it has to be said that ProComp make a hell of a lot of shocks for all sorts of 4x4/s and racing buggies and it does seem to be a Land Rover thing that they break! Not a common fault across the range. This must surely suggest that it is our use of them especially with current trends in suspension of trying to get as much droop as possible with less thought or effort put into what happens on the way back up! David LLAMA 4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I've heard (from Gwyn Lewis, who knows a thing or two) that the most common cause of top eyes snapping off is putting the domed washer on flat side in and tightening the nut too much. This prevents lateral rotation of the eye when the axle articulates causing the eye to eventually snap off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 OK - some pictures to make it all worthwhile. Unbroken side before any changes broken side as found after getting home Unbroken side after taking advice and switching the washer around, does make sense I think was broken side with spare shock - which had broken in same place in same way on same side - which has been welded all around eye and also a line through centre (thank god you can't see the picture of that bit of welding!) I also swapped the bottom while I was there, working on the theory mentioned but getting the broken one off was so much fun I couldn't bothered to do the other side at the moment, so it still has the washers this way around Ok, on to the broken shock. top of shocks piston looks like this The eye looks like this I may have other things wrong, but I am sure that the amount and depth of weld seems poor, but I wouldn't confess to being an expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I'm no expert either, but I'd imagine that your problems are due to the washer being on the wrong way round. The shocks will experience quite a bit of force at 90 degrees to the mounting bolt plane (imagine the shock bolted to a table, then trying to lift the other end up and away from the table) as the suspension cycles, and having the concave side of the washer to the bush will effectively 'choke' that movement. Welding seems a pretty good idea anyway, as long as the body doesn't get too hot - might do that when my ProComps are renewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I have had problems with the rear shocks on the NAS. I have been using Rancho RS9000 for many years and this last new set have been a bar steward. Breaking top and bottom. I am using +1ins coils from Famous Four, like I have been for many years. In all cases the friction weld has failed and unless you x-ray each weld you do not know what the strength is likely to be. As with most things in life the Quality Assurance operator is the bloke what buys the bit of kit! Just hope NASA don't use Pro-comp or Rancho shocks on their Moon Buggies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I think Procomp and Rancho's are made by the same company, and every one I have seen has pathetically small bushings for a vehicle with any degree of suspension travel. With the bare shaft models it is easy to see what the problem is. Just drive the truck up an articulation ramp or bank on side of a road and you will see that the shaft of the shock on the drooped side is bent in an arc. This is caused by the fact that the top bushing is too small and does not allow enough misalignment, and also that LandRover did not get the angle of the top mounts correct for regular large wheel movements even with shocks with large bushings. When I had a coil sprung Landy, after ruining 2 pairs of Koni rear shocks in 12 months, I spent a whole daycycling my suspension with the aid of a hoist, each time trying different angles for the top mount until I got the optimum angle that permitted increased wheel movement and articulation with minimum distortion of either the top and bottom bushings. The compound angle and position of the top mount I ended up with was very similar to what Disco 2's have. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think Procomp and Rancho's are made by the same company, and every one I have seen has pathetically small bushings for a vehicle with any degree of suspension travel. With the bare shaft models it is easy to see what the problem is. Just drive the truck up an articulation ramp or bank on side of a road and you will see that the shaft of the shock on the drooped side is bent in an arc. This is caused by the fact that the top bushing is too small and does not allow enough misalignment, and also that LandRover did not get the angle of the top mounts correct for regular large wheel movements even with shocks with large bushings. When I had a coil sprung Landy, after ruining 2 pairs of Koni rear shocks in 12 months, I spent a whole daycycling my suspension with the aid of a hoist, each time trying different angles for the top mount until I got the optimum angle that permitted increased wheel movement and articulation with minimum distortion of either the top and bottom bushings. The compound angle and position of the top mount I ended up with was very similar to what Disco 2's have.Bill. Bill, I can read a lot of sense in your reply since on the NAS if you fit the lower rear mount first there is no way to get the top mount to locate. Do it the other way round with the top mount loose and you have to start bending the shock to fit the lower mount. I have always thought that the standard defender top rear mount has too much of an upward angle, maybe others disagree? Can you get different top mounts? BTW I have never had a failed front shock, probably because the shock is acting vertically in line with the mount and there is less articulation with the standard hockey sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_a Posted September 5, 2006 Author Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm no expert either, but I'd imagine that your problems are due to the washer being on the wrong way round. Simon, is that in the before or after pictures? I am assuming it is the before so the washers should something like: )--(-#- Any idea about the bottom ones, I swapped the lower ones on the one I replaced to make the same kind of pattern on the bushes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_LLAMA4x4 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I think the pictures show how critical the washer and overtightening could be in the demise of a shock..... with the cup washers on like (-bush-) you can see there is no room for the bush to flex before the eye hits the washer...... With the )-bush-( set up you can clearly see how much more room there is for flex. The angle of the upper rear mount is also a problem as mentioned but as long as the bush is able to flex enough this should only wear bushes out quickly and not break the shock. The long travel kit I sell has a front type shock ( stud / stud ) fixing to get around the problem of the upper bush not being able to cope with the angles.... The lower bushes and washers are the other way around though, with the cups wrapping around the bush. What is vital with the lower bushing is not to overtighten them - just pinch them up tight enough to stop wobble but allow rotation. That should then be enough to hold the shock in place but allow full articulation of the bush. Again this is where we can take a swipe at ProComp - their studs are not shouldered to prevent overtightening and come with a non locknut fixing so that if all you do is pinch them up then the nut will vibrate loose. Nost shocks ( my Rough Country ones are of course right! ) have ashoulder on the thread and come with a nyloc nut. David LLAMA 4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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