Mutley Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Ok guys I know Defenders have a multitude of water ingress problems! Grrrr It would appear i have water coming in at the passengers side via the windscreen frame to bulk head......... And yes i know it is probably down to the crappy seal that LR fit as standard!...... Now removing the frame is an option (last resort as it's, well it just is), so here's me thinking (which according to the wife is always a mistake), what if i cut the old foam seal out and at the same time wedging the frame in place in say 3 - 4 places then filling the gap with some sealant, when set/dry remove wedges end fill these gaps?....... Any thoughts as to this or should i just bite the bullet and remove the frame and do the job that way? The defender in question is a 300Tdi 90 ('95) so time wise this problem is to be expected i guess. Cheers for suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Even new ones leak. Why not just dry out the seal and run a bead of decent sealant along the join, make sure you get it under the 'hinge' blocks and around the frame under the door seal. Loosen the hinge block bolts and run sealant under them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yes i had seen this suggesred on here, But was thinking if i remove the old foam seal i could fill the gap with something better ie. Tiger sealant or the likes of without removing the whole frame? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think I'd try a line over the top first, if that doesn't work you could always unbolt the blocks and loosen the hardtop enough to raise the frame clear of the bulkhead in order to cut the old seal out. IIRC genuine new ones come with double sided adhesive tape each side which makes them a PITA to fit unless you get the frame high enough. The last one I did I used a length of closed cell foam like the genuine one but without the tape which I just slid into place and then sealed up with something like Sikaflex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Is the genuine one closed cell foam? The one on mine certainly seems to soak up a fair amount of water. The water on mine comes in the windscreen seal, that large foam seal between frame and bulkhead, and through the windscreen hinge block bolts. This is despite all of the seals being brand new. It's just a s**tty design with too many joins and seals that don't work. With enough sealant you might be able to make it watertight as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 That's my point really, the original LR seal is just that rubbish. Foam!?! More like SPONGE!.... So if i was to replace/renew would not something like sikaflex be better?.... Plus dping it the way i mentioned be a lot less hassle? Or are we saying if i'm going to renew still use genuine seal? Defenders should come from the factory in KIT form, that way we could build them and sort all these little problems out our selves, it would be so much easier and done right from the off, oh well one can dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 replaced both screen frame seals with genuine LR ones a while ago after repairing the bulkhead corners, lower one was given a coat of black all weather sealant after the screen/doors were refitted, hasn't leaked since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 There's nothing special about the origanal seal, strips of the same stuff without the sticky tape can be had from any decent trim / extrusion supplier. Leaks through the hinge block bolts are good point which is why I mentioned about sealing them up too. That said be careful not to just remove the bolts and squirt sealant in the holes as sealant trapped in the block when you wind the bolt back can cause the block casting itself to crack - ask me how I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Can't quite see the difficulty in removing the windscreen frame to let you get in there and make a real job of it, ok it takes a little longer but at the end of the day you only want to do the job once? Personally I prefer the original rubber seal that LR fitted, I did replace mine with a foam-rubber one a couple of years ago but was never completely satisfied that it wasn't holding water so I am just about to remove it and replace with the original rubber type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 Ok guys fair point, think for some reason i thought removing the screen frame would be a nightmare, so wanted avoid going that route. But if it's not that bad then might have a go. Cheers all Mutley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 getting the screen frame out, needs the headliner moving to get access to the upper bolts to roof, hinge long bolt releasing, screen frame has to lift up to disengage the 2 pins on bulkhead from the frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Did the bulkhead corners on my 110 a while agao. I got a good seal by running a bead of silicone along the bulkhead top, waiting for it to form a skin, then fitting the LR foam seal. Run a bead of silicone on top of the foam seal wait for a skin to form the reassemble. Once tightened down the pressure forces the skin to burst and the sealant really fills any gaps. Also do not forget to fit the gaskets to to windscreen blocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have a copy of the official dealer, "water ingress manual" if you want it? its a pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 it's in the tech archive on here too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 Despite the old wives tale of "Defenders all leak water in and oil out" there's no reason for this to be the case, we have two, and neither of them leak anywhere except the rear sliding side windows and then only when you are pressure washing them. The old type rubber seal is the best, but ours have foam and neither leak at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearos Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 When raining or after rain, with your vehicle stationary and on relatively level ground does water run down your windscreen from the front roof gutter? Mine did and consquently the water would end up in my footwell. Upon closer inspection there was gunk/debris/old sealant blocking the run off for the front gutter, so the water would over flow the gutter and run down the screen to wherever it was that it gained entry. Since clearing the gutter, any water that finds its way into the gutter runs out to the side, NOT down the screen and my footwell has stayed dry.... so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutley Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok then have got some Tiger sealant on it's way so will try running this along the length of the old original seal..... I will order some new gaskets for the 2 blocks, the part numbers i have for these are.... Lower gasket MXC9982 Upper Gasket MXC9983 Is there any does or don'ts when removing these frame blocks or is it straight forward? Only ask as time is precious due to me only have 1 day a week off. Then just have to wait for a good dry spell so the seal isn't still soaking when i do this job, mmmm might send wifey out on a wild goose chase then use her hair drier if all else fails, well it's a plan, not quite a cunning plan but a plan none the less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluehaze Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Even with a brand new genuine seal my windscreen still leaked. From the outside ease the rubber away from the frame and run a bead of black kitchen (mould proof) silicone in the gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 The blocks are a straight unbolt job but are made of poor quality casting so do corrode ....says the guy who's Puma has gone in today for warranty work including having the blocks replaced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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