jules Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 My Td4 blew its second IRD at this weekend meeting and I spent the day pitting for the misses.. The IRD is not strong enough for the speed I want to go and the 200bhp engine is under powered I have 2/3 of a car which gives me what I need but its hart is not up to the job I'm not interested in going for a buggy as I will lose all my sponsors over night and I can't afford to race with out them although any buggy is far more capable. What engine and gear box + 4wd transfer box will cope with a race environment and could be shoe horned into a freelander.. EG. Cos worth v6 engine and box but what transfer box... Evo engine and box + 4wd box Subaru engine box +4wd box Renault quadra turbo + trans axle ? ????????? any ideas pros's con's strengths and weaknesses of the above and any others that could fit. There are a lot of people that have experience from many other fields on this forum be it rally or track etc thanks for the pic's Darthdicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Four outboard motors Sorry Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 how much horse would sir care for and would that be needed in a broad spread or peaky? how tractable do you need? any limits on mods for your class? or engine size limits? max weight you can live with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Four outboard motors Sorry Andy See is light enough I forgot BMW or Lexus parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Don`t Honda run a 2.2 v-tec in a HRV with 4wd? I think that it produces well over 200bhp. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 just thinking about cosworth stuff- how about the setup from a 4cyl sierra cosworth setup 4x4i. Can be easily pushed to 350-400bhp and already has all the 4x4stuff attached. the same setup is used by dax cars for their 7-alike. at one point one of their cars held the world 0-100-0 record (at under 11 seconds!), would make for a mighty quick F/lander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 how much horse would sir care for and would that be needed in a broad spread or peaky? how tractable do you need? any limits on mods for your class? or engine size limits? max weight you can live with? As I have said before I am a Driver not a mechanic But a 4.6 powers most of the racing field with its round about 250bhp and 325ft/p of torque my old quadra I always though would be good with 315 ft/p of torque but only 185bhp it is off the line and out of corner acceleration I need I can sort the brakes later This is the misses idea as it will not sell for what we want so we may as well turn it into what I want if that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Look to some of the french cars Jules. Oh Steve ain't gonna like that comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 But a 4.6 powers most of the racing field But a smaller engine with less pots won at the w/e (as usual) so I hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 just thinking about cosworth stuff- how about the setup from a 4cyl sierra cosworth setup 4x4i. Can be easily pushed to 350-400bhp and already has all the 4x4stuff attached.the same setup is used by dax cars for their 7-alike. at one point one of their cars held the world 0-100-0 record (at under 11 seconds!), would make for a mighty quick F/lander. is it strong enough and uprated cossy part due to rallying costs the earth a freelander weighs 1.6t ringing wet what is the cossy weight... would the old XR4x4 2.8 drive train take a good betting??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Surely Subaru/Bishi Evo engine + box is already 4WD. Ooooo Nissan Skyline - the engines are good for 500bhp without even touching the bottom end, you can get six-speed sequential boxes, they are intelligent 4x4x4 (cunning automatic 4WS) and the vehicles are cheap enough to buy these days. There are more than a couple out there pushing 1000bhp The engines were built for the jap equivalent of BTCC, all they did on the road was de-tune them to 280bhp as all jap cars are limited to this, so all it takes to get them back up to silly BHP is a turbo & ECU tweak. Buy a recent stoved in boy racer one one for a couple of grand and you'll probably get a load of bling goodies on the engine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 IF you want different, how about Subaru Legacy B4 bits? The Twin Turbo gives 280PS and 340Nm (250ft/lb) torque Or as FF says, Skyline..... loads a goodies too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, torques: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Jules, I'd go skyline too although you'll have issues as the drivetrain is longitudinal not transverse. A hot Legacy would also be a good bet. That'd probably be easier to shoehorn into the chassis. Have you spoken to Quaife or GKN about trying to do something differant with the IRD? Personally that's the way I'd go if you want something fairly quick and cheap. Then speak to JE and get them to go really silly on the engine (VGT turbo and propane would be fun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 SO is there a problem with your freelander or is the real truth that the misses keeps beating you and you need somthing alot faster to beat her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Are there any class limitations on engine size / number of cylinders etc? Also, how much room do you have for the driveline? What is a useable front of engine to rear transfer box output length? There's just too many variables with what data you've given - some combos will probably be ruled out by overall length/weight etc. Also, what about your current engine weight? Or the cars balance? Perhaps you could use this opportunity of 'fettling' to aim for a weight saving of, say, 100 kgs or whatever? Maybe try to bring the engine rearwards a bit? At the risk of sounding like myself... Stick an LS2 in it. Lightweight, not too big, serious power and a lovely torque curve, plenty of room for upgrades in the future, gearbox options etc etc... Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 I will take some dimentions tonight... The CV's & shafts will need to be made at the td4 can brake them. the Idea is to strip out the belly parts to bear shell and start again.. The class will be super production and as long as I stay with the Shell I can still get a Rally log book for any rallies I want to do. I have been told that subaru stuff is not strong enough for off road race stuff but the freelander is not that heavy but the tyres are aggressive in comparison to rally or road tyres... I posted this to get people to bounce some ideas around..which has worked what is the electrics needed for a skyline drive train.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Anyone know anything about Rotary engines size wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Anyone know anything about Rotary engines size wise yeah Mazda and Norton F1 sport mmmmm Very fast pick up. Have alot better pick up than the standard petrol engines (don't have the lag as such of petrol egines). Also 150 BHP does not mean the same in a rotary as it does in a normal petrol engine A 100 BHP rotary will tiddle on a 140 BHP normal petrol engine Come on Jules you must remeber Jannick with the Vids of the Norton F1 Sport at the TT and other races, came out of the corner twice as fast as the other bikes, due to the rotary engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Anyone know anything about Rotary engines size wise Small. No torque. All builds I'm aware of that have tried rotaries eventually took them out due to the lack of torque. If you are constantly braking / accelerating (I guess this happens a lot in a rally ), this seems like a Bad Idea. Even friends who are AVID Mazda fans running very high BHP water-injected rotaries round the track told me to steer clear due to the torque issue. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 the Norton rotary was a disaster how much is the budget Jules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 the Norton rotary was a disasterhow much is the budget Jules? Pitty well thats one out of the picture.. This job is not planned for over night. As little as possible. A few grand for parts which in racing is very little but about all I have & time will happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I would not go to fancy on it, especially if you're not into cutting and shutting big lumps of metal. I would get quaiffe involved and drop the question if they are interested idoing a gearkit for your box. They already do a freelander diff, so there must be a market. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Rotaries are tiny in comparison, bit of a head scratcher to set up (double-decker dizzy ) dunno about torque and stuff, Bill S has a collection of RX7's in his garden as he's putting one into a Westfield (has been for some time to be honest ) There are a lot of electronics in the skyline but being jap they seem to be pretty reliable, again it was built to race and then just punted out to the public so a lot of potential. No idea how much you can remove / disable electrics wise, would need to look round some skyline forums to get a feel for it. A Skyline engine and manual box would be doable, rip the lectrics out and squirt it. I suspect the autos may have an ECU of their own but it may be tweakable or replaceable, likewise the intelligent diffs/TC/steering at the end of the day it comes down to a physical actuator that you can control with electricity in some way or another. Skylines have been around for long enough, and are popular enough, that there are people out there who know how they work and can make them do whatever you want. I guess first stop is ask Dave H, he'll either tell you not to bother or laugh at the insanity and say yes BTW it was either Quaife or GKN who did an adapter to mate Skyline engine & 6-speed sequential box to an LT230, dunno if they still sell them... in fact it was Dave H who pointed that out to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Rotaries are tiny in comparison, bit of a head scratcher to set up (double-decker dizzy ) dunno about torque and stuff, Bill S has a collection of RX7's in his garden as he's putting one into a Westfield (has been for some time to be honest )There are a lot of electronics in the skyline but being jap they seem to be pretty reliable, again it was built to race and then just punted out to the public so a lot of potential. No idea how much you can remove / disable electrics wise, would need to look round some skyline forums to get a feel for it. A Skyline engine and manual box would be doable, rip the lectrics out and squirt it. I suspect the autos may have an ECU of their own but it may be tweakable or replaceable, likewise the intelligent diffs/TC/steering at the end of the day it comes down to a physical actuator that you can control with electricity in some way or another. Skylines have been around for long enough, and are popular enough, that there are people out there who know how they work and can make them do whatever you want. I guess first stop is ask Dave H, he'll either tell you not to bother or laugh at the insanity and say yes BTW it was either Quaife or GKN who did an adapter to mate Skyline engine & 6-speed sequential box to an LT230, dunno if they still sell them... in fact it was Dave H who pointed that out to me Dave told me that Quaff will want tens of thousands to produce a strong IRD, there is a french guy who has made one for about £3000 but that will not get over the power aspect and once I up the power will it not push the new stronger ird past its spec and back to squar one... I have a quaff diff in it already but that was developed for Westfields as they run freelander diffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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