thinking outside the box

[honitonhobbit]

I know for a fact that the old Nissan 720 PU remote T box will take well over 350bhp and four skip loads of torque. My old 720 racer ran a 3.0V6 Twin Turbo lump for a fair few seasons in European endurance stuff with nary a problem. The T box was then hooked up to a 327/TH400 combo in a buggy with no probs.

[will_warne]

Jules, how about having a word with 'what's his name' withthe blue, rear engined, spaceframe Freelander? I'm sure he'd be able to supply some of the drivetrain bits.

I'd also be interested to see whether there's any parts that could be used from the RR3 or RRS.

[jules]

Jules, how about having a word with 'what's his name' withthe blue, rear engined, spaceframe Freelander? I'm sure he'd be able to supply some of the drivetrain bits.

I'd also be interested to see whether there's any parts that could be used from the RR3 or RRS.

That truck is a 3M with money strapped to it..(unfortunatly I have neither)

sorry it is a amazing truck but not set up for uk off road racing and roumor has it cost over 100k

kin quick though

[RPR]

Having driven a Subaru WRX 2.5 turbo, I was very impressed. It's very quick, you already know that it's capable. I don't know anything about the Subaru transfer case, but their whole gig is AWD so I would have thought it would be pretty good. Worth looking at.

[b101uk]

if you want good engen how about the BMW 3.2 & 3.5 strait 6 M engens all 280hp to 320hp as standard, normaly mount to a ZF gearbox

[jules]

nissan stuff is wortha is worth a look

BMW stuff may be too big to fit under the freelander but I need to get some dims to work to....

[imspanners]

nissan stuff is wortha is worth a look

BMW stuff may be too big to fit under the freelander but I need to get some dims to work to....

Which is where the Skyline may fall down as it's also a 6 cylinder.

[honitonhobbit]

Been thinking about this at work all afternoon

Option 1:

Keep the Td4, swing it round 90 degrees, add a BMW box from a 3 series, mate to a Nissan/Suzie remote T box. Keep the suspension but carry a Diff off the side of the block a'la Niva stylee.

Keeping indi suspension not only allows you to make more mistakes, it needs less room.

Option 2:

As above but with a VTec 2.2 lump and MK1 Celica box (with Heritage close ration internals)

Option 3:

Use the drive train from a tuneable, strong and reliable 'Soft Roader' like the CRV or the RAV4

Option 4:

Do something stupid with an over powered, heavy engine, weighty but weak drivetrain all squeezed under a Freelander body

When it comes down to it you don't need any more than 200BHP if you have light weight, good reliable suspension and a motor that pulls well from low down but revs like a banshee on speed all coupled up to a useable set of ratios.

Just my thoughts

[Mark90]

When it comes down to it you don't need any more than 200BHP if you have light weight, good reliable suspension and a motor that pulls well from low down but revs like a banshee on speed all coupled up to a useable set of ratios.

Just my thoughts

There's a lot of good racers in class 6 (?) under 2.0 litre

How about a red top on throttle bodies, easy 220bhp, and as a bonus the engine is cheap as chips.

[honitonhobbit]

Hell of a lot

Mind you if take a 2.2VTec and add a supercharger and some bits of electrickery you get 300bhp at 9.5K

The final incarnation of my Chenoweth copy ran a Volumex lump on a Traffic transaxle. It was chucking out 165 bhp at the wheels on an accurate rolling road and would rev to 8K, but thanks to the Traffic 'box it had a low first gear.

If I still had it I would go back to the Transporter 2.4 lump and bolt on a SyncroSpares Turbo kit. That would see a nice useable 200bhp...

There are so many good 2.0litre lumps around that push out big power for low bucks and rev like a wasp on laughing gas. I drove a KAP Jimney with a Vauxhall 2.0ltrTurbo in it. What a hoot 250bhp on a bad day with far to short a wheel base for racing - but the engine was cheap and bl**dy strong. Throw it onto a Carlton box with a remote T box.

The Rover T series 2.0ltr Turbo bolts onto an MPi Disco box, add a series T box so you have part time four wheel drive - another 200bhp rocket.

BMW 2.0 four bangers

Scooby lumps bolted to a VW transaxle/Syncro drive train

Audi four bangers

Ford lumps are ten a penny

Nissan 2.0ltr Turbo's

Toyota Celica

Mitsubishi 2.0. 2.2, 2.4, 2.6

Even the crappy K series with a blower on it...

[riprse]

ive got a r34gtr skyline at the moment, there a good but dont believe all the hype , to mod it in any way your looking at a shed load of cash, a descent lump and box will set you back around 4k , then you need all the rest of the electrics to make it run,, however the scoob may be a good choice, a 95/96 or such jap import sti spec scoob will blow your socks off, youll need to uprate the oil pump but thats about it you can get them for about 5k strip out what you need then sell off the rest, should be able to do it for around 3k,

the scoob i had a 98 version 4 sti import is was far quicker than my skyline gtr34 to 110 and alot cheeper

[pugwash]

still reckon you should look at Sierra cosworth stuff- it's plenty strong enough i reckon (although that is a HUGE assumption based on seeing it running in both heavy cossie stuff and light caterham kit). It is cheap though- in a small package- reliable- there are sierra cossies around with well over 100k on them- and very very easy to work on- bolt on bigger turbo etc etc. No electrics to fanny around with- megasquirt would run it's simple injection setup.

subaru stuff would work wouln'dt it- i can't beleive that SS stages are that much easier on the drivetrain than saturdays affair- and you can run an almost boggo scooby as a rally car can't you?

[Steve Hiatt]

As an overview it seems like a huge amount of time and money with the end result of a car that still would be nowhere overall and have a gremlins for years.

My suggestion - Phone Ian Rochelle, he want's to sell Julia Haines old Wildcat at the end of the season for sensible money.

[Aragorn]

evo engine is transverse setup so might Be most streightforwards

gearboxes have plenty of uprated

parts available too

sierra cosworth (2.0 16v turbo YB) is longitudinally mounted but again easy 300-350hp on stock parts and plenty gearbox upgrades available

[honitonhobbit]

Having seen Steve's post, he has a damn good point

Any success I had in comping and endurance raids/rallees was down to luck, reliability, simplicity and picking the class with the least competition! Old Holbourne, Woods Rum and loads of strong coffee helped as well.

[FridgeFreezer]

Cossie should be easy, they're EDIS as stock so waterproof ignition and easy to stick MegaSquirt on, plus I hear there's a few tuning bits for cossies out there

[reads90]

nissan stuff is wortha is worth a look

BMW stuff may be too big to fit under the freelander but I need to get some dims to work to....

Hey jules ship you over one of these

Simular to what i have in company car

HSV 5.7 litre C4B V8 engine - 300kW @ 6,000 rpm/510Nm @ 4,800 rpm

[jules]

Hey jules ship you over one of these

Simular to what i have in company car

HSV 5.7 litre C4B V8 engine - 300kW @ 6,000 rpm/510Nm @ 4,800 rpm

Very nice but in a Freelander

[Astro_Al]

Why not?

I thought this thread was called 'thinking outside the box'...???

Al.

[jules]

There is a mini with a Rover V8 in the front on a princess gearbox..

it still comes down to the transfure box...

So many ideas

A mate said look into the Valkswagon 4x4 drive train.

which I will I have not had time to do any resurch on the ideas that are coming out but all good so far..

[reads90]

There is a mini with a Rover V8 in the front on a princess gearbox..

it still comes down to the transfure box...

So many ideas

A mate said look into the Valkswagon 4x4 drive train.

which I will I have not had time to do any resurch on the ideas that are coming out but all good so far..

jules there enough room in the bay for a rover V8 then there's enough room for this. and you can get parts from the Vauxhall garage in town

[will_warne]

That engine should be smaller than an RV8. IIRC its a rebranded LSx.

Jules, having never so much as looked under a freelander, is there the option to mount the engine longitudely or does it have to be transversly? It'll be far, far easier if you can do the latter.

As far as the 3M car goes, I wasn't thinking about using the whole thing as its a spaceframe special but they might be able to provide drivshafts and CVs. Plus they're transfer boxes are very dinky.

In the end almost anything is possible but I could see this costing a fortune and ending up with a vehicle that's unreliable at the end. How about getting the engine propaned, and a VGT turbo built for it (so more power, more usably), going to quaiffe for the IRD and then getting Rakeway to make some driveshafts for you? The gearbox will still be a problem (what did you describe it as, chocolate or cheese ) but everything else should be OK and it'll probably cost you a lot less than all the other otions and they're all relitivly minor jobs to fit meaning it could be working progress.

Other option, just replace the IRD with a standard one and live with it

Option 3, use the money saved to get the Tomcat built and start challenging again. There's no IRDs to worry about there B)

[jules]

That engine should be smaller than an RV8. IIRC its a rebranded LSx.

Jules, having never so much as looked under a freelander, is there the option to mount the engine longitudely or does it have to be transversly? It'll be far, far easier if you can do the latter.

As far as the 3M car goes, I wasn't thinking about using the whole thing as its a spaceframe special but they might be able to provide drivshafts and CVs. Plus they're transfer boxes are very dinky.

In the end almost anything is possible but I could see this costing a fortune and ending up with a vehicle that's unreliable at the end. How about getting the engine propaned, and a VGT turbo built for it (so more power, more usably), going to quaiffe for the IRD and then getting Rakeway to make some driveshafts for you? The gearbox will still be a problem (what did you describe it as, chocolate or cheese ) but everything else should be OK and it'll probably cost you a lot less than all the other otions and they're all relitivly minor jobs to fit meaning it could be working progress.

Other option, just replace the IRD with a standard one and live with it

Option 3, use the money saved to get the Tomcat built and start challenging again. There's no IRDs to worry about there B)

transversly

If I am honest all I want is a cheap but fairly reliable engine & box arrangement.

EG. rip the engine and box out of an old cossy and cut and shut it into a freelander.

Better still a old XR4

I think it would be better for cost and ease

But the rally boys have said there not as strong as you think.

If I need up upgrade the rest of the drive train

Hubs I have a cheap source of Mitsubishi if needed.

Shafts will have to be made

Diffs there are loads I could use.

eg

This could be fun

This is a GM part but very similar in shape to a IRD

This would be nice but to much work for what I am after (unless I come across a totaled 911 S4 for 2k) B)

OR

from A volvo XC90 4x4

[honitonhobbit]

Been talking about this again at work today. Bare in mind that between the two of us in the workshop there is about 65 years of motorsport experience, from building and maintaining drag racers through to tarmac side car racing with rallying, comping, trialing, illegal street racing and circuit racing being added to the mix.

The most reliable four banger around is the Toyota 2 litre TC. It has huge tuning possibilities and loves forced induction and it's cheap to buy and build.

Forget Scooby, GT4, Cossie 4x4 etc - the weight of your motor will kill the drive trains. Rallying is fine but comping is a tadge on the harsh side. No matter what you do, your Feeeloader will never be as light as a Scoob

permanent 4x4 systems that use indi suspension and that DO NOT have components made of old stilton and tin foil are not that common. As I said before you have RAV4, Honda, VW Syncro, VW Itilis, Scooby Brat, Jensen, Masseratti, Lambo....

The RAV is cheap, already has the Toy TC, LSD's all over the place. But sadly it's main box gives up at about 200bhp (I know this from personal experience). The Syncro will take a works Scooby engine and ask for more but the VC's tend to play up after a short while - it would also be interesting shuffling it all around *rse about face. Honda will fit Freeloader but who knows what power it goes pop at. Brat and Itilis are old as the hills. Jensen would be criminal...

How about a QT with a T series Turbo, MPi box and Borg Warner T box. Sponsors stay happy, it's cheap, it's 200bhp plus, it's reliable, it revs to 7K without thinking. It's easy as well.

If you want Derv power, then use the Rover 2.0D (not the crappy TD4 but the nice Peugeot jobby fitted to the Mk1 400series) Oodles of tuning potential AND it bolts onto the Mpi box

In fact I may just max the credit card and do it myself

[TJ101]

Forget the cossy route,, been there,done that, you think you have trouble with IRD units, spent 10's of thousands, on transmissions in a ex work GPA escort,

Hows about a 6R4, with a freelander body, ??