Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Has anyone used airsoft bb's for tyre balancing? I found an oblique reference in this thread: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=53877&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1 Anyone able to share their experiences? At the moment I'm unable to find ceramic bb's for sale and I'm unsure what kind of weight I would need in each tyre. Also would they affect any repair patches inside the tyre? Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've never heard of ceramic BBs. i think you are mistaken. Cheap BBs are plastic, Sport ones are resin, more often these days they are biodegradeable, so could possibly degrade in the wheel? If you want the resin ones just buy from any of the UK airsoft suppliers e.g. zerooneairsoft.co.uk Sorry i cant answer about the balancing matter though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Ceramic bb's are what is referred to in the thread I linked to, I did google it and found a page on a US airsoft forum which described the different types of bb available, the ceramic was described as the heaviest and most expensive bb (0.40g) and mostly used by snipers. I couldn't find anywhere that sells it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Whatever you're using as balance-weights, you need access to a decent balancing-machine and - more importantly - someone who knows how to drive it. I had a year of annoying steering-vibes between 75 and 85MPH on my 90TD5 - until I found a guy who truly knew how to operate a Corghi 'blue light' balancer with 750/16 wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I had to look it up, beacuse having played airsoft for 15 years i had never heard of ceramic bb's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft_pellets "Created from lab grown crystal lattice structures, these BBs are individually CNC machined. The downside is they are extremely expensive" It doesnt really sound like something you can afford to to drop into your wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Tanuki, these beads go inside the tyre, no need for a balancer. This video explains it well Hoss, yeah I read that too, but I cannot find a price anywhere, don't forget it's all relative - they might be expensive compare to regular plastic bb's but could be significantly cheaper than the £40 per tyre for legit dynabeads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I had to look it up, beacuse having played airsoft for 15 years i had never heard of ceramic bb's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft_pellets "Created from lab grown crystal lattice structures, these BBs are individually CNC machined. The downside is they are extremely expensive" It doesnt really sound like something you can afford to to drop into your wheels. Always good to meet a fellow airsofter. Normal BBs should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Define normal RC, do you mean cheapo plastic 0.12g rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 No, just standard fair 0.2g, though in a tyre I doubt it makes much difference. These are about as 'standard' as you can get, plenty of other choice though. http://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info.php?cPath=264&products_id=4861&osCsid=ebe4c4b9b0ff6acedb03aed0d799d13b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challo Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hi, i've been using plastic BB pellets for about 3 years now. I used to have 265/75/16 Greenway hard rider, big macho hairy chest tyres. When traditionally balanced they had over 100g of weight and i experienced wobbles at 55mph. I put 250g into carcase and removed traditional weights and wobble disapearred. On BFG AT 235/85/16 i used 200g of pellets. Now on GG TR 235/85/16 using 175g and both have worked well. Hope this helps. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Tanuki, these beads go inside the tyre, no need for a balancer. This video explains it well *shudder* it must do horrible abrasive-things to the inner surfaces of the tyres/tubes, and I can't see how it could possibly maintain consistent high-speed balance. You brake, and all the shrapnel in the wheels drops to some random place, surely? Then it must be horribly out-of-balance when 20 seconds later you're back at 80MPH? I'll put my trust in a guy who knows what to do with a proper dynamic wheel-balancer and fixed weights that are placed in +/- 10 grams of accordance with what the computer says they should be. I also kinda suspect my insurers would walk away if I was involved in a third-party-claim accident and they discovered I was using a tyre-balancing technique unrecognised by either the tyre- or vehicle-manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Thanks RC, I'll try those Challo, good to hear some positive feedback Tanuki, find me a proper balancer that can swing a 36" tall 12" wide tyre and I'll give it a shot, better yet I'll dump a thousand bb's in there first and then check the balance . There are plenty of folks in the states using this method, bikers use the dynabeads inside tubes with no issues, so I'm happy to take the risk. Besides which these tyres are getting abused on rocks anyway, I highly doubt a load of plastic balls is gonna kill them before I do Edit: my tyres & wheels are not recognised, endorsed or approved by the vehicle manufacturer and yet my insurer is happy with the risk. I shall enquire with the broker before installing beads or bb's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Screw the abbreviations ! What the hell do the letters BB stand for , 'ball bearings' ? I don't think my inner tubes would appreciate a kilogram of balls rolling around inside them, even if I could somehow squeeze them through the valve stems ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Lewis have you tried swapping wheels and tyres round to get the least death wobble and then spinning the tyre 180degrees on the rim? I appreciate you are on big knobbilysand I've never really played with much over 32" but I've had over 10sets of wheels and tyres on my current 90 4 of them being remould knobbilys on turned disco rims and I've never ever put an ounce on them or had any death wobble. Will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I used the beads that Devon 4x4 sells in my 35*13.5*15 Mudzillas, on double beadlocks. It removed the judder I had at 50 MPH, however, it would only work on completely smooth roads. On less than perfect roads, the beads get disturbed and it doesn't work basically. I never tried to balance my simex tyres, they are tubed as well, which pretty much removed the posibility of using beads anyway. Interestingly, since I swapped the modular wheels for banded land rover wheels, any imbalance has completely gone, there is no need for balancing whatsoever. daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Bill, yes ball bearing, in this case a bit of a misnomer given they are in fact plastic spherical air gun pellets. Not 1kg either - more like 100 to 200g per wheel. I don't use tubes in these wheels but as stated above there are bikers in the US using the dynabeads inside tubes Muddy, I haven't checked, but I'm almost certain it's the wheels which are out of balance, due to the 10mm x100mm bits of mild steel bar welded over the valves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Weld some more bar opposite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Could do, I could whip the tyres off and stick the rims on a balancer and weld where required. I don't have a balancer tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoSS Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 p.s. BBs are 6mm they wouldnt go through the valve body, but those dynabeads look smaller, and hence easier to insert, even into tubes. Why not just buy the dynabeads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Bill, yes ball bearing, in this case a bit of a misnomer given they are in fact plastic spherical air gun pellets. Not 1kg either - more like 100 to 200g per wheel. I don't use tubes in these wheels but as stated above there are bikers in the US using the dynabeads inside tubes Muddy, I haven't checked, but I'm almost certain it's the wheels which are out of balance, due to the 10mm x100mm bits of mild steel bar welded over the valves Thanks Lewis.I'll look into it. Running tubeless at low pressure is a pain in forest terrain. Beadlocks of any type are illegal here, so I must use inner tubes, but balancing q78 TSL's or Simex ET's on almost fully back spaced wheels and keeping the weights in place has been a real bug bear over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hi guys I have dynabeads, the proper ones About 80 quids worth! Have had them in 3 sets of tyres now I think, they're so expensive I can't afford to lose any so it's a bit of a faff scooping them out and transferring them etc BUT they do work Started with 33x12.5x15 MTs which were smooth anyway, balance weights lasted 5 mins off road so looked for another option, I was advised 8oz per wheel Fitted, happy days I'm on -50mm offset rims also so they are very prone to death wobble, as such balancing is important. Now have 33x13.5x15 pitbull rocker which are an absolute dog on the road (no pun intended) When I first fitted them I tried them without beads, OMG couldn't get above 20mph without bad death wobble! So decided to separate my beads into 10oz for front wheels and 6oz for rears Now I can cruise right up to the max speed rating of the tyres (85mph) in vibration free comfort Ok the tyres are noisy as hell and death wobble occasionally but on the motorway they're reasonably good Long story short beads do work Some tech: These dynabeads are apparently the larger version for 4x4s etc and are around 1mm diameter Bikes use them a lot according to the man but they spec a smaller bead To put in perspective, 10oz of beads fills a regular aerosol cap, ie a cap from a 500ml aerosol, around 50mm diameter, 50mm tall I know from my paint spraying that a 500ml aerosol cap holds 125ml thinners (handy mixing cups) so 10oz is approx 125ml of beads Hopefully some of that info will be helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Noisy Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Oh and don't bother trying to get them through the valve I had hella trouble, was easier to pop the beads and chuck them in I know that American car dudes are in the practice of simply chucking a handful of metal BBs in the tyres, no measuring Regards tyre wear etc, no problems, do get plenty of ceramic dust in the inside of the tyre but no abrasion etc Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I have been using white ceramic BBs for years - maybe 50,000 miles in my 235/85 x 16 tyres. They were much cheaper than having four tyres balanced. I think I paid about £10 for a large packet of them from ebay. Used the same set in two sets of tyres. The rims and tyres remain undamaged, though the BBs were a bit dirty when I changed tyres. The BBs are 6mm in diameter from memory and are very heavy and rock hard compared to plastic BBs (which I was not keen on trying). I found a chart for tyre size and weight online provided by one of the commercial companies that sell dynabeads or similar. I put in the recommended weight per tyre and they have been absolutely perfect. I always had problems balancing the first set of tyres. Loads of lead was needed on several of the wheels. I stripped off all the lead weights, put in the Ceramic BBs and have never looked back. Perfect balancing, even if you have mud stuck to the rim. The BBs, wheels and tyres don't wear out because they don't move much. once over a few miles an hour, centrifugal force keeps them in the same place. If you have the window open, as you stop, you can hear a faint 'tsch' noise as the BBs drop onto the rim of the wheel. There were a few threads on this years ago. If I find the packet I will post the makers name - I am pretty sure they came from China. Hope this helps, Regards, Diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I use the Dynabeads in TSL Q78 tyres (off road 35 10.5 - 16 approx) and they work fine. Fitted the tyres first and had horrible vibration, split the rims and added the beads and all is much more civilised. There are lots of scientific explinations of how the beads work but in a nut shell as the tyre moves in an offcentre way the beads get thrown out and compensate, any extra weight just spreads itself evenly. They do require some speed to work but then wheel wobble is less of an issue at low spead anyway, not sure how they work on rough ground as never sure how much of the vibration is wheel balance or just hitting an un even road!. Due to the way they work they will only balance around the circumfrence of the tyre, not sure of the correct terms but I think it amounts to the wheel would be balanced if balanced on a centre point with the tyre horizontal but might not be if out of balance from side to side with the tyre vertical (obviously you can't actually test this statically as the tyre needs to be spinning for them to work), in effect you would be adding weights evenly to each side of the rim rather than to a specific side. So a wheel balanced on a full balancing machine will be better in most cases in theory. In practice I find them fine. Once added it is not recommended to try and get the wheel balanced on a conventional machne as they will automatically try and compensate and will throw the machine off. Also in theory at least they will adjust automatically to any new imbalance such as mud build up or loosing a chunk of tyre tread then readjust on the fly as the mud falls off, in practice again I think this depends on degree, they can only correct so far. I fitted them as I have stazworks rims with a rolled bead so can't fit conventional wheel weights and stick on ones tend to fall off pretty quickly. They are a pretty recognised way of balancing a wheel but more in the states than over here and as fars as I know more common on commercial tyres. It is not recommended to use ball bearings as they can rust if there is any moisture in the tyre and then just form a big lump. Also the smaller and more dense the beads the better they will spread out and work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Hi guys I have dynabeads, Some tech: These dynabeads are apparently the larger version for 4x4s etc and are around 1mm diameter Bikes use them a lot according to the man but they spec a smaller bead To put in perspective, 10oz of beads fills a regular aerosol cap, ie a cap from a 500ml aerosol, around 50mm diameter, 50mm tall I know from my paint spraying that a 500ml aerosol cap holds 125ml thinners (handy mixing cups) so 10oz is approx 125ml of beads Hopefully some of that info will be helpful 1mm diameter ? Is that a typo Mr Noisey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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