Replacement Starter Motor Brand

[MuddyWinny]

After a starter motor incident on Friday night I need to buy a replacement but there seems to be a couple of options.

Euro Car Spares sell the Bosch but include a surcharge until the old one is handed in. Foolishly I had thought that the best part of £200 +VAT would buy a new one.

LR Direct sell the Bosh but do no mention returning the old one. However, although the brand is Bosch it is sourced from Britpart. Bearmach and Allmakes are about the same price.

Paddock also sell the Bosh but do not mention Britpart.

I seem to recall a thread (which I can't find using the search) where various brands had failed.

My questions are:

1. Does anyone know if all Bosch replacement starter motors are re-manufactured (I suspect they are).

2. Does anyone know of a brand that is reliable.

I've only focused on Bosch this is what was fitted. It may well be the original as it has a Landrover stamp on the body.

I'm not against fitting a good second hand one (assuming I can find one) although genuine LR ones are probably as old as the one I have just removed.

Thanks

Mark

[TSD]

Surcharge doesn't necessarily mean the replacement part isn't new, it just means there's some money to be made out of your scrap one.

Likewise a remanufactured part doesn't *have* to be inferior to a new one.

A Bosch OEM motor does not have to be the same as a LR Genuine Parts Bosch motor, it just means they can claim it was made by the same company.

On the ones I stripped and compared, the Gen. Parts motor had better sealing, a bigger solenoid, and probably some other differences I've forgotten. (ISTR the reduction gearbox was different too, one had four pinion gears, one had three, but don't take that as gospel)

As for which is best, I suspect most people (me included) won't see enough motors over a short enough time to have a good picture.

e.g. Valeo motors I've used lasted ~60k and failed with weak solenoid engagement, but the last was probably 10 years ago. Now way to know if they are made the same now, or even in the same factory/country/continent.

Bosch motors certainly seemed to last longer, the only failures I've had were mechanical. Two burst the reduction gearboxes, one was damaged because a mounting bolt went missing.

[elbekko]

Can't you have it rebuilt locally? I've always had good success with that.

[Maverik]

I've replaced various bits on starter motors, as long as the windings stay good then solenoids, brushes and clutches and drive end bearings can all be replaced relatively easily

I've had a few Valeo units in vehicles and think they're pretty darn good, they just keep on going.

[jbs]

Have a look here: http://www.sandcelectrical.com/

http://www.universal-rotating.co.uk/public/static.aspx?page=AboutUs

http://www.broadwayelectrical.co.uk/classic_&_vintage_car_repairs.html

hth

John

[MuddyWinny]

Thank you for all the replies. That's given me some helpful information.

Mark

[sighnbox]

Mines just started to go was £50 copy one from paddocks TEN years ago and never failed till now when while detailing me engine bay the landy stood for 8 weeks and it was stuck when tried to start it......eventually did release and been fine ever since (I think there £74...£80 now)

[Steve King]

Can't you have it rebuilt locally? I've always had good success with that.

It has worked for me - ask around the local independent garages and they should be able to recommend someone.

[discomikey]

whats actually gone on it? my 200Tdi starter has started playing up, its the "drive unit" which is basically a roller ramp type overrun clutch, i pulled it the other day and cleaned it whilst i ordered a new one (£20-50 rather than £200) the rest of the starter is fine and im happy rebuilding them all day. it doesent exactly take long and so long as you dont disturb the motor it will only take half hour max once out the vehicle, 3/4 hour if you strip the lot i would say. mine is the origional starter as far as im aware and this clutch is the only thing showing its signs of old age. its just rather embarassing with it whizzing away and not catching!

starter clutch on order if you want ill do a how to on replacing it.

[Mo Murphy]

That would be good, Mikey.

[MuddyWinny]

Last Friday night I started the Landrover to move it on the drive. The engine started fine but I noticed a new noise a bit like a small compressor running.

I switched the engine off but the noise was still there and my first suspicion was the electric cooling fan.

With the bonnet up I could see that the fan was fine an the noise coming from around the back N/S of then engine (under the air filter - it's a retro fit 300tdi) - along with wisps of smoke and a really bad burning smell.

Now, I would like to say that I acted with complete calm from this point onwards... ... but it's probably best that I leave some of the detail out.

I retrieved a 13mm spanner from the back of the Landrover, gained access to the battery, put the spanner on the -ve terminal and realise that the noise had stopped.

After disconnecting the battery there was still a burning smell and wisps of smoke from the engine bay.

I removed the starter motor the next day and thankfully there was no damage to any of the wires. I haven't yet rotated the crank shaft to check the ring gear on the flywheel but by the condition of the teeth on the starter gear I'm guessing all should be ok.

However,

1. The starter motor was hot enough for the plastic cap on the end to fall off (retrieved from the road the next day)

2. The main shaft which the clutch and gear wheel slides along when the solenoid engages was a gunged up.

3. I couldn't rotate the starter by turning the gear wheel so it looks like it had seized.

I'm guessing that the starter motor was stuck switched on due to the return spring on the solenoid not being able to disengage the clutch (starter dog?) assembly.

Using brute force and ignorance I have freed the starter. I've also cleaned the shaft a little.

The starter does work when connected the the battery using jump leads but I don't know if I can trust it or if it is worth rebuilding.

My main concern is any damage caused by effectively a short circuit and the heat. I may have also damaged the clutch although it looks like discomikey can help with that.

In addition the one of the links above there is a place not that far from me that rebuild starter motors and alternators.

Assuming there are no wires in the magnets (like a winch motor) then it may be just as well to replace the main part of the motor, brushes and clutch if I can get hold of the parts (there is another link above that helps with this).

I have managed to buy a second hand unit and will fit that. I'd like to have a spare so I'll have a think about what to do with the original one.

I have a LR manual but would any rebuilding how to.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Mark

[discomikey]

well, my starter clutch was the wrong one, now im a bit annoyed i welded the clutch up for the time being but struggled to get anywhere i could actually weld it up enough to bite properly without damaging the gear and therefore the starter ring on the flywheel. its started to slip again and ill have to pull it a third time and just get a replacement, when its off and i put a new one on ill do a how to as i can rebuild the bleeding things in my sleep now haha!