pfwilko Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 whilst driving today 3rd and 4th decided to stop playing. No crunching or grinding, just stopped working. Got the floors out and tunnel off, nothing amiss. 3rd and 4th selector rod wants to move but something internally seems to be stopping it. there is a little bit of bounce, thats to say it is not a solid stop but the gears just won't select. Any ideas or even better some pics of how it might be fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 My guess would be that the 3rd / 4th selector yoke locking pin on the shaft has come adrift. With the R380 being a single shaft selector rod, the rod has two pins affixed to it, these "pins" engage either the 1st / 2nd selector yoke or the 3rd / 4th yoke. The problem could be that the 3/4 selector pin has come adrift or the engagement slot in the 3/4th gear yoke has either worn away or broken, either way sorry but if I'm right it means pulling out the box and a semi or total rebuild. Pull it apart and if I'm right I would advise re-assembly and get a Ashcroft re-built box. I re-built mine but it was an exercise in temper and patience management, especially with the asbestos oil pump seal and getting all the bearing tolerances right, get them wrong and the box sections wont correctly re-assemble and gear selection will be either too tight or too loose. A full set of bearing pullers along with a hydraulic press and some special tools, along with a fabricated assembly cradle (as shown in RAVE) are essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Umm...Boydie....is it a R380 in a Series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I had this problem a while back, the 3rd/4th selector hub has 3 little leaf springs in it, one of mine had broken and jammed up the hub. After about a mile of driving in second, it freed off again and worked perfectly for another 1000 miles before i had chance to strip the box and rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 As Dave88sw says - the little sprung steel things inside the sychro hub do break, and I replaced them on mine quite a while ago. Part number is RTC1956 x 3. If one breaks you don't tend to notice it, but if 2 go, then the hub is not central and gear selection is affected. Might be something else, but I believe it was a fairly common problem - apart from the revers gear shaft breaking. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondjeremy Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Almost certainly RTC springs. Some say its possible to replace them in situ just by taking the top of the gearbox off - I've never done it and don't think its easy. Somewhere on the internet there are instructions - may be Series 2 club. These springs get tired and flat after 20 years or so. I've found Bearmach ones work nicely, Britpart ones aren't quite the right shape and gave an apalling change. If the spring falls out 3rd - 4th will work but the spring will float around in the oil and can get between the gear teeth - which will damage them if you're lucky or snap the layshaft (late 2a) or possibly remove teeth (S3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfwilko Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 cheers guys. sorry forgot to say it is a series 3. you have all confirmed what my early general search said. Have got a spare box so will chuck it on and then look at sorting this one. why the hell these small springs couldn't have waited for another month when the season ends before they decided to break. Have got three working spaniels all sat looking at me wondering why I am not lying under it and swearing a lot. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Sorry, as no model was stated (and this helps) I assumed -- making an ass out of you and me -- that the gearbox was a R380 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is in the Series forum though -easy mistake to make when just viewing the forum by the 'New content' link like I do, I once offered an RRC heated windscreen to a forum member in the Defender forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I then come along and confuse it with non-series 3 TDi's and LT77's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 If you're going to repair it, it might be worth checking the reverse gear shaft while you have it apart. There was a replacement kit available for it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonb Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Yep 3rd/4th syncro springs. Sometimes they free off and drop to the bottom of the box entirely other times they will jam the syncro hub. Been there, done that with mine. If they all break and the gear remains free you can still drive but need to double declutch. The springs can be replaced with the box in situ by removing the top and selector rods but its a right PITA. Its a bit like trying to thread a needle wearing oven gloves whilst looking at how to do it down a bit of drain pipe. Once you have worked out how to do it, it is probably quicker than taking the box out and strippling it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 As the others said, it will most certainly be a shattered leaf spring in the 3d/4th synchro unit. I have had this twice now. On the second occasion, a 20 mile drive in second (with overdrive) freed it up, the shrapnel being flung out of the hub centre centrifugally. However, once one has gone, the other two won't be far behind - their centre humps (which catch on the baulk ring connecting rod grooves to cause the rings to be pressed against the synchro cones on the gears during gear changes) will be equally worn, and the remaining springs will be carrying the entire load with the forces applied unevenly. You will notice that with once spring out, the gear change is a little lighter on the stick but grinding is a little easier. Replacement involves a gearbox strip down, so you'll need a gasket and seal kit as well as the three new springs. Take a close look at all the bearings while you're in there. There are photos of the parts and a rebuild in the transmission section of my blog ( www.nickslandrover.co.uk ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I read that somebody slipped a new spring in, but it could be that they had to abuse the springs tension to do that? I only mention it as stripping a box is a fair job to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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