LS26 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I decided to de-rust my RRC petrol tank cos it looks like it needed it... So I gave it a good wire brushing and then experimented with some of that 'Rust Eater'... I placed loads in the pump depression: and left it there for 20 miutes - agitating it occasionally with a stiffish brush. Then I removed it and - HEY PRESTO: No difference. When I tried the same stuff on my CBR600 after a winter of commuting it was MARVELOUS... Bringing the fan motor upt to bright metal in no time! Ah well, I suppose Rover-Rust is just that much tougher to shift than Jap-Cr*p... Or maybe the stuff goes off? Anyway - since it doesn't look like I'm going to be painting onto bright metal, but onto (well wire-brushed) rust: What would the panel recommend in terms of primer? I have heard that Zinc Phosphate primer will stabilize rust and act as a good base coat, but an old friend once said that you can't beat 'red lead' (I think he may be a little too old!) Any guidance/experiences would be appreciated. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 POR 15 all the way stops rust dead and loves rust like yours. it's the biz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR90 Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Think like many things red lead was so good they've banned it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 POR15 will love that, it sticks to rust like the proverbial to a blanket. Zinc Phosphate is what I'm painting my chassis and various other bits of the 109 with, mainly because it's cheaper than POR15 and doesn't need a topcoat. (POR goes powdery with age if it's left to the sunlight/UV). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS26 Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 POR15 will love that, it sticks to rust like the proverbial to a blanket. Zinc Phosphate is what I'm painting my chassis and various other bits of the 109 with, mainly because it's cheaper than POR15 and doesn't need a topcoat. (POR goes powdery with age if it's left to the sunlight/UV). Hi again, I never heard of POR 15 so I checked it out - WOW! The product I have been looking for for years! I particularly like the bit where it says that painting it directly onto a rusted surface is best. After years of believing that you had to work for hours removing the rust before painintg, it feels almost sinful... Kind of like your mum telling you it's OK to go out and get all muddy in your best clothes! So - POR 15 and Zinc Phosphate (for the big bits) it is... Thanks lads! Roger p.s. I found POR-15 for £27 a quart (inc vat plus del) at Frost Products - does anybody have a cheaper source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I have heard bad reports on POR15 esp when used on chasis where it peels off it strips ...... So I would maybe start a threrad asking "POR 15 vioews please" before you go and do it I have never used it personally but I know 2 mates who have and will never touch the stuff again ? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Hey Nige, i used POR 15 on my chassis and it has been absolutely amazing. The key is in preparatio- the pain surface has to be properly prepared. On a slightly rusty pitted surface like above, the stuff will NEVER come off. The problems occur when it doesn't properly attach to the substrate- Marine Clean and metal ready tends to fix that though- in an ideal world you'd get any painted metal shotblasted and then prepped- i honestly beleive you would end with a surface which was more hardwearing than Galv! The last chassis i painted in POR15 i left outside in the sun and rain for at least 12 months and it looked no different the day i sold it, to the day i painted it. Great stuff as long as you put the prep time in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Hey Nige, i used POR 15 on my chassis and it has been absolutely amazing. The key is in preparatio- the pain surface has to be properly prepared. On a slightly rusty pitted surface like above, the stuff will NEVER come off. The problems occur when it doesn't properly attach to the substrate- Marine Clean and metal ready tends to fix that though- in an ideal world you'd get any painted metal shotblasted and then prepped- i honestly beleive you would end with a surface which was more hardwearing than Galv! The last chassis i painted in POR15 i left outside in the sun and rain for at least 12 months and it looked no different the day i sold it, to the day i painted it. Great stuff as long as you put the prep time in. Very Interesting That might explain it then ! I think they both used it for chassis work, where I have ground / welded on repair sections and rear crossmembers, they both said it seems to peel off the paintwork that was there, I ask when I see them re the bare metal / rusty sections Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 My experiences of POR 15 are mixed. On a well rusted surface (i.e. all orangy brown) it sticks like glue and is pretty tough. On a slightly rusted or un rusted surface it comes off in sheets. It also does not have a good shelf life and skins over badly. Beware puttin gthe lid back on without cling film too..... The POR 15 "metal ready" sooution is incredible however - I left a rusty master ring submerged in it for about an hour and it came out with some bits shiney and the rest sound material for painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 POR15 should be called POS15 waste of time unless you have a rust bucket any decent metal and or paint means it falls off. In fact I could go and peel some off for you and post it in an envelope DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME/MONEY it is carp.... I use and only use Zinc rich red primer and or Glvafroid as a primer the Halfords Matt Black enamel for top coat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 POR15 should be called POS15waste of time unless you have a rust bucket any decent metal and or paint means it falls off. In fact I could go and peel some off for you and post it in an envelope DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME/MONEY it is carp.... tony- read my post above- it's bloody brilliant under certain conditions and with the right prep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 well I spent a week preparing/paint my 90 chassis only to watch it peel off in sheets. I far prefer the Halfords paint so I can just add more when it gets worn off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 How about acid etch primer? Not sure how well it does on rust like that? Just thought I'd throw it out there. To be honest it wouldn't take long to clean that tank right back to shiney clean metal with a grinder and appropriate discs - that's what I'd do. Screw the manual wire brushing - electricity is your friend! Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS26 Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 How about acid etch primer? Not sure how well it does on rust like that? Just thought I'd throw it out there.To be honest it wouldn't take long to clean that tank right back to shiney clean metal with a grinder and appropriate discs - that's what I'd do. Screw the manual wire brushing - electricity is your friend! Al. I did start out using a wire brush on the grinder but it didn't seem that fast to me... It also makes sparks I think I'll try the POR-15 on the tank (after a decent hand wire brushing prep) and report back on how it goes... Thanks for the warnings about it skinning over and about it not sticking to much else other than rust. Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3landy Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 I was tired of dealing with rust so someone told me to try Por-15.I followed the instructions to a tee on new and old rusty metal.It peeled off the new metal and rust came through on the old metal.I could have saved myslf a bunch of money and used Tremclad. I wouldn't recommend Por-15 to anyone. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS26 Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 This year the same bars have started to rust badly not flaking but bleeding through underneath the Tremclad paint. What can I do to rectify the situation and do you offer a warranty on your paint? I was tired of dealing with rust so someone told me to try Por-15.I followed the instructions to a tee on new and old rusty metal.It peeled off the new metal and rust came through on the old metal.I could have saved myslf a bunch of money and used Tremclad.I wouldn't recommend Por-15 to anyone. Mike It seems that rust-paint arrouses strong feelings on both sides - and not only on this forum... I thought I'd check out TREMCLAD and the very first thing that I found was this: Last year I used Tremclad high gloss black to paint steel metal exterior security bars on a bank building in Hamilton Ontario. Prior to painting 2 coats of Tremclad I lightly sandblasted the bars.This year the same bars have started to rust badly not flaking but bleeding through underneath the Tremclad paint. What can I do to rectify the situation and do you offer a warranty on your paint? Michael Smith Contractor - Hamilton, Ontario, Canada I also found more or less equal numbers saying how brilliant and how rubbish it is... I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice.. Now. The other part of my original query (Zinc Phospahte primer) has not has a similar effect - is that because everybody's experience of it is universally good - or perhaps that people have lower expectations of a simple 'primer' as opposed to an 'anti-rust treatment'? Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I did start out using a wire brush on the grinder but it didn't seem that fast to me... It also makes sparks I didn't mean wire brush at all - use a sanding disc on a flexible rubber backing pad, or some flapwheel discs - whole tank = 10 mins? to shiny new metal. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 POR really hates paint or shiny things, if you read the instructions it recommends leaving clean metal outside to get a bit of a "patina" to the surface before painting. I did a rusty salisbury axle with it and it'd probably withstand a direct nuclear attack, did a new-ish fuel tank and it did indeed come off the painted sections. I suppose what you really want is the rustproofing system that shall remain nameless Al - you really want a wire brush to remove rust, otherwise you're just making the whole thing that much thinner rather than blasting off only the rusty bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Al - you really want a wire brush to remove rust, otherwise you're just making the whole thing that much thinner rather than blasting off only the rusty bits. No i don't - I'm talking about shiny metal. You've got to take off any non-structural rust anyway. the surface layer of rust removed after that is mega-thin (unless the tank is really bad). No big deal. Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I just nuke everything in the blaster - game over for corrosion then Sparks are pretty but for tanks my suggestion is - purge the tank for welding, fill it with inert gas Co2 or Argon/argoshield, cap it and then lay heavy with the grinder fu electrolytic anti rust removal seems to give good results just to chuck in another course of action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 replace tank with an ali one, prob sorted never to come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS26 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Share Posted November 13, 2006 replace tank with an ali one, prob sorted never to come back Hmm - I'm guessing there could be some cost implications here? Does anybody actually make an ally (or SS) direct replacement tank? The next chapter in my RRC tank/POR-15 story is that upon futher cleaning, it appears that there are patches of original paint all over it.. Most are only a few mm across but I suspect that they are large enough to start the 'peeling off in sheets' that people mentioned. So my plan it now to use the POR-15 elsewhere (rest assured dear reader, there are plenty of rusty bits to chose from!) and to wire-brush it back far enough to use Zinc Phosphate primer and top coat (followed by underseal once it's in place). Rog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 To get rid of rust on 'black' steel you need to use a diluted phosphoric acid wash. The phosphoric acid will only attack the iron oxide and leave good steel in tact. Dont forget to rinse thoruoghly or even better wash with an alkaline soap. I tend to use a zinc based primer then paint, then rustproofing like dinitrol, nopava, or similar, as if you notice it has worn you can just get a spray can and touch up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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