Sharkdisco Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Hello I went to look at a Land Rover 88 1975, which has yes been heavily modified resulting in leaf springs removed replaced with coils and a 300tdi engine I went to the house and the bloke seems genuine says it's too small being only pick up style and he's bought a 110 which was also nice! Anyways I checked the V5 and it had the correct engine number and stated model 88, the chassie number was displayed but a front bumper winch has been welded and it was dark, I couldn't find to compare. My question is if these mods where carried out before 1998 SVA there's no receipts to prove would it state anything on the v5 to say these where registered with DVLA before an SVA would be needed. (Hybrid maybe or altered)? But at a random guess as a lot was a Range Rover shortened down chassie used, then would the radical change cause and triggered it to be a Q plate even before 1998? Or didn't this apply if chassie changes took place and mods? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I can't help with the legalitles, but you should be able to tell if it is a series chassis with coil mounts added, or a shortened range rover chassis as they are quite different in design. Series chassis - note the horizontal design of the chassis rails, particularly at the rear. Range Rover classic chassis I believe the overall construction of the rails is different too. Series is 4 pieces welded together at the corners, RRC is 2 C sections welded down the middle. Also, if it is a shortened RRC one, you should be able to see the join in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 IMHO it's far more likely a cut-down RR chassis than a modified leafer one, and at that point this subject has been done to death a thousand times over so I'd suggest reading back through the forum for the full bunfight. The short answer is it depends how lucky you're feeling, if you're rather not be just "getting away with it" then don't buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Moved to the International... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 It's due and coming up for being tax exempt does this require it being inspected or have to be take it any where to qualify for tax exempt? Or do you just fill in the required forms and send off? I guess it is pot luck as the reg is still a 1975 and you can clearly see the coils from behind which any traffic police with some defender knowledge would and may pull me over.....then it's over gulp. Also any vosa check would result in a seizure. There's no receipts and it is a cut down Range Rover so guess I've answered my own question it's not worth the fear of not enjoying a drive I guess, but I am curious about the tax exempt question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Either scenario you mention could be fine, if as you suggest it was done before the critical date. I'd be checking more to ensure it isn't actually a bog standard Defender chassis! Are the chassis mods fairly apparent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 There's no inspection when it comes of age, you just get the tax class changed.However. If it gets pulled any time and it fails inspection......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 That's true and if pulled and tax exempt they'll have a birthday back dating the untaxed period haha. It's a difficult one as the price is good and spec is high, it's very apparent it's not a 1975 it look like a challenger truck all singing and dancing oh and it's bright orange! It's one of those I guess, you take the risk and hope for the best or I part with my money knowing full well I could loose the lot. It's at a cheap price but not so cheap if I was to loose it Need to listern to my head not what my eyes are seeing ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Decode the vin it may be on the range rover chassis number and registration. In which case it's still a hybrid iirc if done correctly before sva it would say so on the v5 and be on a either a new (at the time) or a q plate as with kit cars at the time you just took them to the local dvla office they looked at them and registered them the plate would purely be down the year it was done (q plate came in the 80's to I identify kits and rebuilds etc). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Such a mine field but once the vosa have hold of you they are like a dog with a bone....won't let go. Thanks for the help on clearing things up guys makes more sense now. Need to ponder now do I risk it for a biscuit or take my money and run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 If it's that cheap, why not have it, and then rebuild it back on to a proper new galvanized chassis, quick before anyone notices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Back in time one could modify a vehicle by changing the frame & suspension without losing the vehicles identity if it keep a min number of points. My Hybrid was built in the 90's which kept it's identity even though it has a galvanized coil sprung chassis. When I imported it into Sweden I had no problems with the identity and registration thanks to the point system at that time. "Approved" modifications are allowed here and that's how I ended up with the 300Tdi motor and now the LT77/LT230 combination. My point is, this vehicle might or might not be a ringer. There are too many unanswered questions to be calling it a ringer so fast. The DVLA has gone through so many changes over the years for you guys I can see the suspicions, just don't pull the trigger yet........more info needed. Todd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well it's £2500 with out the winch so, adding a new chassie £1000 plus then SVA tests resulting it to be a Q plate be spending about 4k in total to make it legit unsure id get that back? Very true it could well be a legal car however no chassie markings can be found no receipts etc etc it is like coloured water and unsure what is in the pond if I put my hand in ha. Here's a pic as I know I like a good pic too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuko Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 That pictures says a thousand words and I have to admit that your most likely right in saying ringer. Did you measure the distance between the axles? The spacing from the wheel arch to the door should be a lot tighter if it was 88", looks more like a standard 90. From that angle the only thing that appears to be series related is the lower door and hinges. But hej, I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveturnbull Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Does it have any straight panels? I'm partial to a nice hybrid, but I probably wouldn't bother with that one. As has been said, it's basically a 90 looking at the dimensions (albeit with a series style rear crossmember) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Here's the last pic I've got your correct it does look more and more like a 90 can you see my concern why it shouts pull meeeeeee I'm 1975 but still looking good for 2015! I didn't measure I'm still a newbie status but with thanks to this site and you guys I'm slowly picking the ins and outs of the basics etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkdisco Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 What would you guys valve you it as spares or repairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepé le Pew Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I think I have seen this truck before on this forum. Maybe a year or so ago. It was for sale then also and the coclusion then was that it is a ringer. The rear crossmember is series but it is welded on on top of the cut down main beams as you can see in the second picture. In the last picture you can clearly see the "S" shape of the chassis in the rear wheel arch. So probably RR chassis. Axles are RR or Discovery by the looks of the drive members. Eric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywog Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Looking at the rear tub it looks to be 100" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Regardless of what it is, unless it's got lockers or other expensive and easily removal parts it's not worth the cost/hassle ratio in my book You're better off buying a 90 if that's what you want. At least you're starting off with a known quantity Just my humble opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Definitely been on here before for the same reason and the same response was given......walk away. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Well it's £2500 with out the winch so, adding a new chassie £1000 plus then SVA tests resulting it to be a Q plate be spending about 4k in total to make it legit unsure id get that back? If you add a new chassis to the correct 1975 design to suit the reg, and have it galv'd, you don't need an SVA. That said, looking at it you'll also need to source new Series axles, and I'm guessing that along with the 300TDi it hasn't got the 1975 gearbox any more either? It's a ringer, walk away, unless you want to do the right thing and return it to 1975 spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 On the same subject, anyone read the latest Total Off-Road magazine?. It has an article on buying a hybrid, lots of comments on how someone made it etc, but nothing what so ever about the legal status of the vehicle. It is clearly registered (and taxed I assume) as a 1959 SWB, but descibed as a shortened Range Rover chassis, I know there is a points system but since it has a Range Rover chassis (modified), axles, steering, suspension and a changed engine, then if anything it should carry the Range Rover registration and identity or a Q plate. Before the SVA it was legal to modify chassis with out a retest so it MIGHT fall into that age but there is no way enough parts for it to be a 1959 series 2. Picture 2 page 30 also shows some very dodgy welding and a rust hole in the left chassis leg (although I have seen a lot worse on road vehicles!). A lot of people will get away with this and not consider it a problem, in many cases it isn't until something happens and for some reason the vehicle is examined then everything comes apart. Potentially it will be confiscated as no provable identity, fined for being on the road with no tax (this could be viewed as fraud) and what could be the worst bit no valid insurance. If the reason for the examination is a serious accident the insurance company WILL look for a way out, if you have insured a series 2 but the police examiner says it is not the insurance is totally void and you become personally liable for any costs, injuries etc, if you have any assets (house?) wave good bye to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Is it road legal? If it's offroad only then it's not a problem. I altered AVCIS to a 100" the other day. It had a defender based body, but shorted rangy chassis, rangy engine, gearbox, axles, coils, PAS.....and on a 1972 Series 3 tax exempt logbook! Unfinished project, so definitely not pre-SVA, and it was scabby....jeez was it bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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