Motor Factors Moan! Grrrrrr

[Mutley]

Having my x3 weeks annual holiday I have stripped and rebuilt the Defenders (1995 300Tdi 90) front and rear axles (all new bearings and seals plus x2 new stub axles at the rear). Fitted new fuel tank (after a quick rub down, rust proof paint and a coat or 2 of Hammerite) then used 3m Schutz underseal on it, greased prop shaft, changed oil in both diffs!

So decided to do Gear and Transfer boxes as well just to complete the job and peace of mind!...... The Book of Lies states that for the Manual Gear box use ATF to M2C33 and this is what I have always used without issue!....And touch wood, the gear box has ALWAYS been silky smooth in ALL gears!!!

Time to phone the local Motor Factors and get a price on 5Lt. of Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)..........The conversation goes something like this.....

Me.....Hi, do yo have AT fluid in and if so can you give me a price on 5Lts.

Factors......Can you give me your Reg. and I,ll check exactly what you need

Me.....The reg is "M******"

Factors......Mmmmm well is says you need to use Hypoid Gear oil SAE 80 or SAE 90

Me.....I know that's for the Transfer box, I want the ATF for the GEAR BOX!

Factors.....Oh OK......Mmmmmm, is yours a manual?

Me.....Yes

Factors.....Well you don't want ATF you need MTF94

Me.....NO!...I WANT ATF!

Factors.....But yours is a manual

Me.....I KNOW!!!

Factors.....Well our system recommends you use MTF94

Me.....LOOK MATE I DONT CARE WHAT YOUR SYSTEM RECOMMENDS! THE MOTOR IS OVER 20YRS. OLD AND HAS ALWAYS HAD ATF AS THE BOOK STATES WITH OUT ANY PROBLEMS!!!

Factors.....But it's a manual!?!

Me.....YES AND IT'S MINE!!!

THEN I HANG UP (before I loose it!)

Cannot believe it was that hard???......Why the hell theY cant just give you what you ask for with out trying to be the Motor God of all things Motory, I get being helpful and giving advice but if a customer knows what he wants and is a little more clued up on his vehicle than the spotty oik behind the desk, that can barely remember his own name (apologies to all spotty oiks that do know their own name), why so difficult to just give the customer what they ask for?????

Next time I will just tell them it's for a LAWN MOWER!!!

[Peaklander]

They will sell you what you ask for if you are nice to them. They are advising you that you need MTF because that is indeed what has been recommended for your (R380) gearbox for some years - even though it was originally ATF that was specified by LR. However it's a free country.

By the way if it's Euro Car Spares (who do like to use vehicle reg filters on their parts listings), be sure that you use an on line discount code (they always have them) and buy online and click and collect. You can't get the same price if you just turn-up at the counter unless you set up a trade account. Typically they have -20% or -25% discount codes which only then, in some cases, brings their prices down to 'reasonable'.

The last MTF I bought came from Smith and Allan.

[Mutley]

Damn I forgot to be NICE, Damn and blast.....

Cheers Peaklander for the heads up about Euro Car Spare as this was the place I went to in the end, but having phoned x3 different motor factors and ALL the phone conversations went the same way, was just getting a bit annoyed that they couldn't just say YES we sell ATF and it cost this much for this much without asking for the reg and then guessing I wanted it for the transfer box, then being told but it's a manual as though I did not know this!....

I am aware that you CAN use MTF in the gear box these days but as stated the LR is over 20 yrs. old and has had ATF since day 1 so don't want to use anything else.

[SPendrey]

I wonder if there is a liability problem?  Specifically if their system says "MTF94" and they sell you something else, and you later have issues, they'd avoid the mis-sold problem.

[reb78]

I think if its a case where you asked for an oil and they sold it to you, noone would hold them liable?

 

I do share Mutleys frustration. The R380 is fine on ATF according to about 50% of posters on here, the other 50% love MTF94. They are probably both fine really, so in this case Mutley has chosen to stick with ATF. So just sell him the stuff. You could go into halfords and buy it off the shelf with less hassle (although perhaps more expense!). Incidentally, i sympathise with his decision - Some say to use MTF94 in the LT77 because it is better, but i found i couldn't tell the difference between the ATF, MTF and the fancy difflock evo stuff so chose to stick with cheaper ATF and change it more often.

 

I had a similar story with the LR independent up the road from me. I needed a fan belt so went in...

Me - 'Could i have a fan belt for a 200tdi defender engine please?'

Them - 'What year is it?'

Me - '1989, but that doesn't help you because i put a later replacement engine in it - its a defender spec 200tdi'

Them - 'Yes, but is it a defender or a discovery engine?'

Me - 'Defender'

Them - 'Yes, but does it have the high or the low mounted turbo'

Me - 'The high mounted one because it is a defender engine!' (i was getting exasperated at this point as all the info he needed was in my first sentence)

Them - 'Well, they are different you know'

Me - 'Can i please have a fan belt for a 200tdi defender engine?!'

 

I eventually got it, but its the same story every time i go in there - its like they need to baffle me with their lack of knowledge! I only go in if desperate, otherwise i use mail order or drive 20 miles to a garage where the guys behind the counter are just helpful!

[FridgeFreezer]

I've always found if you're polite and explain it's a special/bitsa ("kit car" often works well) and just ask for what you want there's no issue, they get the idea you're not Joe Normal with a standard car.

From their point of view they are used to the average muppets who can f**k anything up and blame them/demand a refund etc. so if their computer says you need MTF for your gearbox and you try to buy something else for your gearbox they can just see a compensation claim for a new gearbox 2 weeks down the line...

Also a 2nd vote for Smith & Allen, if you're on Facebook you can be their friend  and get a 10% discount code.

[Mutley]

Think i was pretty much polite to start with!?! And still got nowhere  and dont see why i have to explain why and what i want it for every time i ask!!!

As for the liability side i really don't see that as i could put it in the radiator by mistake, my fault not theirs for selling it?

Maybe i might be even more polite if i can get what i ask for 1st. Time without 20 questions and "But it says you need to use this ######", can only live in hope???

[FridgeFreezer]

They're minimum wage box shifters, and 999 out of 1000 people who phone them asking for gearbox oil really should use what the computer says not what they think they remember putting in last time.

And the other 1 out of 1000 would be fine with MTF94 as well if he wasn't such a stroppy bu&&er

[Cornish Rattler]

That's why I prefer to just walk in and buy what I need although just been into my local ( ****world ) for some EP2 grease cartridges as I couldn't see any at the recent landy show and they say they don't sell it in cartriges anymore only in tins so I think I will order a load off ebay instead

[Mutley]

Mmmm NOT POLITE & a STROPPY BU66ER! because i KNOW what i want on the basis  that i vaguely remember what i put in last time??? If someone asks "can you tell me which gear box oil i need for my defender (because I can't remember which I stuck in last time)?", then fine go through the routine 20 questines. But if a none polite stroppy bu66er asks for ATF you would think the guy knows what he wants regardless of what is for, withoiu the 20 questipns from box shuffling muppets or otherwise???

[Tal]

I come from a time when (I've worked in a few shop type environmentws) if some one walks in and says can I have.....you sell them it...and you sell them it regardless of what they actually want it for.

If they ask you what to use for xxxxx then you tell them what you recommend for the given use.

I too am a go in and  buy what I want unless I ask for help.... I have been known to walk out if they start asking 20 questions

[Mutley]

Glad to hear it Tal! I was beginning to think i was the only impolite stroppy bu66er!?! How that was surmised god and 1 other only knows? Maybe  because i vaguely remember what i wanted???

[Peaklander]

Well you asked the question in your post and don't like some of the replies but I think it's reasonable to give some slack. Over the counter sales people at multi site companies like ECP will all be trying to follow a standard process to ensure that they don't get things wrong and in fact, in most cirumstances, give good service. 

[Mutley]

Yes asked "Why they can't give you what you ask for?". Don't  think the response "Try being POLITE" and being a "STROPPY BU66ER" is some how the RIGHT answer!?!......At NO point did i imply i was either at the time of enquiring far from it! Only posted my view on the subject NOT to be accused of being the impolite stroppy bu66er that every motor factors minimum wage earning box shuffling muppet dreads of.

[Peaklander]

Ok well I'm off this thread now. Cheerio

[Mutley]

Stroppy Bu66er 

[FridgeFreezer]

1st mistake was giving them a reg, that was your chance to avoid the script.

[Mutley]

True lol.....But that only works when you know whats coming, but it wont happen again that's for sure 

[Snagger]

On 21/09/2016 at 4:36 PM, Mutley said:

Mmmm NOT POLITE & a STROPPY BU66ER! because i KNOW what i want on the basis  that i vaguely remember what i put in last time??? If someone asks "can you tell me which gear box oil i need for my defender (because I can't remember which I stuck in last time)?", then fine go through the routine 20 questines. But if a none polite stroppy bu66er asks for ATF you would think the guy knows what he wants regardless of what is for, withoiu the 20 questipns from box shuffling muppets or otherwise???

You see!  You don't remember what you put in last time!  It was red, but it wasn't ATF; it was the blood of the shop assistant who last put you through this rigmarall.  That's what stroppiness causes...

[Snagger]

On 21/09/2016 at 7:21 PM, Tal said:

I come from a time when (I've worked in a few shop type environmentws) if some one walks in and says can I have.....you sell them it...and you sell them it regardless of what they actually want it for.

If they ask you what to use for xxxxx then you tell them what you recommend for the given use.

I too am a go in and  buy what I want unless I ask for help.... I have been known to walk out if they start asking 20 questions

I used to get the same off AA patrolmen.  I had a Chavalier while I rebuilt the 109, and it let me down a couple of times - broken clutch cable, massively blown head gasket.  It'd always be on the same trip to East Mids airport, too.  They'd never accept my diagnosis over the phone and would spend time at the road side buggering about and then eventually giving the diagnosis I'd given them twenty minutes prior, and of course they couldn't fix it.  I had to play he stroppy card with their customer service lot and told them I'd leave the AA if they didn't put a note on file to tell the operators  that I knew what I was talking about and to take my word and ensure the patrolman had the parts I said or send a recovery vehicle on my say so rather than having to waste the time of me and a patrolman before sending one.  In fairness, they did that.  They do have to deal with some clots, though, so you can understand why they develop their normal procedures.  A friend once refilled his mini's oil through the dipstick tube, and filled it to the top.  He is a pilot, so you'd like to think he had some basic technical ability, but no...  And just look at some of the work that goes on within the LR fraternity - we have all seen utter wrecks that the owner thinks is in top form, claiming that woolly steering and bad brakes are normal.  They have to deal with these people daily.

[simonr]

I share your angst!  Fortunately, the local factors know me and don't give me the n'th degree if I ask for something.  When I get a new member of staff, I just tell them it's for my [Insert random bit of machinery they will know nothing about and not have on their computer].

With the AA & the like, just tell them your brakes or cam belt has failed.  They won't ask 20 questions and won't try to fix it by the road side, just send a recovery truck.

Si

[Snagger]

I did have one good experience with the AA on the way to work (uniform and no tools, so I couldn't do anything and had no time anyway) - I told them that the overdrive (Fairey) had failed and I needed a tow the last mile to work, and that I'd call them again at the end of work to get the patrolman stationed at the airport to remove the OD and fit the standard gear and carrier that was stored in the LR.  They obliged.  I talked the patrolman through the job, and even though he had to lay on a wet carpark spot to do it, he said he'd really enjoyed it, fixing a proper problem and learning something new, and not just jumping a holiday maker's flat battery or topping up an empty fuel tank!

[Mutley]

13 hours ago, Snagger said:

You see!  You don't remember what you put in last time!  It was red, but it wasn't ATF; it was the blood of the shop assistant who last put you through this rigmarall.  That's what stroppiness causes...

BLOOD! so much BLOOD!!!.........next time i'll go to the local hospital and get the LR 5lt of BLOOD, I can still ask for ATF (Automatic TRANSFUSION Fluid) and as they know nowt about cars should be easier and quicker?

[Cornish Rattler]

I spent most of the morning traveling to 6 different motorist shops to get some grease cartridges everyone except 1 didn't sell them only in tins and the last shop only had 1 cartridge in so when I next get paid or have a decent win on a scratchy I will order some off ebay

[Snagger]

But I'll bet they had plenty of stereos, air fresheners, aluminium pedal covers, blue LEDs, low profile alloys and Monster stickers...