Petrol engine conversion

[honitonhobbit]

I live near Bridgwater - we don't have any spare virgins to sacrifice

[Bowie69]

Ha, classic

[Blanco]

I was pondering starting a 'Vapour thread' thread this morning but turned up this instead, so to try and bring it back on topic, has anyone ever seen a VR6 or M104 in an aluminium overcoat? (Green oval label variety I mean).

[Yostumpy]

back to the OP, what about a 2.0 xt Subaru lump,  175bhp. or 2.5 xt 227 bhp, small engine, saw a you tube vid of one in a 90, but can't find it now. 

[FridgeFreezer]

16 minutes ago, Yostumpy said:

back to the OP, what about a 2.0 xt Subaru lump,  175bhp. or 2.5 xt 227 bhp, small engine, saw a you tube vid of one in a 90, but can't find it now. 

The problem is not BHP but torque in a 2-ton brick. You want a decent blob of torque from low down & over a reasonable rev range and most car engines just can't do it, as it is largely down to displacement (and a big heavy flywheel helps).

There are motorbike engines that make 200bhp but at 10,000+rpm and I guarantee they would not be much use in a land rover.

[Chicken Drumstick]

18 minutes ago, Yostumpy said:

back to the OP, what about a 2.0 xt Subaru lump,  175bhp. or 2.5 xt 227 bhp, small engine, saw a you tube vid of one in a 90, but can't find it now. 

I like the boxer engines. But there is little benefit over fitting an RV8. The V8 will make a fairly easy 200hp and is a bolt in job. 

I suspect a 2.0 litre Subaru turbo engine would be no better on fuel. Just a lot more expensive to fit. 

[Bowie69]

Mazda do a well thought of 2.5 4 cylinder, 170bhp or there abouts, fitted to Ford Rangers I think?

Can be swapped into an Mx5...

[Tanuki]

1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

Mazda do a well thought of 2.5 4 cylinder, 170bhp or there abouts, fitted to Ford Rangers I think?

Can be swapped into an Mx5...

Nissan also do a rather nice 3.5 litre 24V V6 [used in the 350Z and the Mureno] which would be the sort of engine I'd want to use in any petrol conversion. The 350Z version is a 'twin plenum' (two entirely separate air-filters/intake-pipes/throttle-bodies/MAF-sensors) so it flows really well.

[FridgeFreezer]

The Nissan VQ seems to have quite a run and quite a lot of awards... no idea if it's any good.

Unless it's just for the hell of it you've got to go a long way to offset the ease of a Rover V8 swap.

[Bowie69]

Mmmmm yes the 350Z engine with a set of ITBs  

For costs sake though, hard to beat a 3.0 duratec: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-MONDEO-mk3-2005-3-0-petrol-V6-FULL-ENGINE-114K-3-0L-Duratec-SE-EFI/392050131572?hash=item5b48024274:g:QDAAAOSwkLJbBbq6

 

[FridgeFreezer]

1 hour ago, Bowie69 said:

For costs sake though, hard to beat a 3.0 duratec

Just out of interest, Wikipedia suggests that manages ~220lb/ft of torque at ~4500rpm.

By comparison, a 3.9 V8 makes that at 2000rpm, and the 4.6 does it from idle.

[Chicken Drumstick]

3 hours ago, Tanuki said:

Nissan also do a rather nice 3.5 litre 24V V6 [used in the 350Z and the Mureno] which would be the sort of engine I'd want to use in any petrol conversion. The 350Z version is a 'twin plenum' (two entirely separate air-filters/intake-pipes/throttle-bodies/MAF-sensors) so it flows really well.

Would be better off with a Chevy LS V8. Lighter, more compact. More power, more tunable, lower centre of gravity, cheaper to maintain and already established as a potential swap engine with adapters to mate to Rover gear or transfer boxes. 

V6 on the right:

 

[=jon=]

1 hour ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Would be better off with a Chevy LS V8. Lighter, more compact. More power, more tunable, lower centre of gravity, cheaper to maintain and already established as a potential swap engine with adapters to mate to Rover gear or transfer boxes. 

V6 on the right:

 

Have you seen the price of LSx engines in the UK though

Budget version is a Toyota 1UZFE (??) v8 from an old Lexus - you can buy an LS400 for not much money and probably recoup most of the purchase cost selling bits off the donor car...

[Chicken Drumstick]

How much does the Nissan V6 cost? Guess there are a few used ones about. 

Sadly not many used LS engines unless you import them. Found in the Monaro, VXR8, Corvette and Camaro. Steel block LQ variants found in pickup trucks. Crate engine prices are pretty good though. If you are going new.

I have two LS1’s, both in Camaros. 

Agree on the Lexus V8. Although no off the shelf adapters to easily install in a Land Rover. I have one of these V8’s sitting on a crate. Just not got around to using it. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Chicken Drumstick

[Bowie69]

4 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Just out of interest, Wikipedia suggests that manages ~220lb/ft of torque at ~4500rpm.

By comparison, a 3.9 V8 makes that at 2000rpm, and the 4.6 does it from idle.

I do agree, but also the other picture is that a Rover V8 lugs to only 5k realistically, whereas modern engines are much happier with more revs, and more efficient there too.

so, with that in mind you can run lower overall gearing with no ill effects, and pick up any lost low end torque that way.

Have to agree though, Lexus V8 is a beautifully built engine....

 

[Bowie69]

Duratec 3.0 is ~180lbft at the wheels at 2000rpm, so I'd say pretty comparable to a good 3.9 RV8.

[Tanuki]

The Chevy LT lumps are so old-fashioned though - they still use pushrods  and 2-valve-per-cylinder heads....  how unsophisticated!

[I never really got on with traditional-style US engines - they pull OK at the bottom end but just when you think things are about to get interesting performance-wise they run out of breathing/revs].

The Toyota/Lexus "UR" engine - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_UR_engine - is also used in Land-Cruisers; I wonder how easy it would be to transplant the entire engine/autobox/transfer-box into a LR? That would at least mean you'd still have the engine and transmission management-systems talking to each other in the way the designers intended.

Truth is, the Lexus lump is gorgeous: a friend has a Lexus LS and the acceleration is rather startling - you just floor the throttle and you're doing 100 before you know it, the revcounter needle swinging between 5500 and 6900 but with no real perception of it changing gear at all.  All in wonderful silence too!

[FridgeFreezer]

GM LS lumps are insane value in terms of power per buck and they fit where a Rover V8 was, but there's no cheap ones in the UK and the LR drivetrain will not thank you. Also there's a new set of problems to fix and foibles to find with a swap like that.

[Bowie69]

Problem with the Toyota UR engine/drivetrains, is I bet you can't find them for sub 5K.....

[Chicken Drumstick]

4 hours ago, Tanuki said:

The Chevy LT lumps are so old-fashioned though - they still use pushrods  and 2-valve-per-cylinder heads....  how unsophisticated!

[I never really got on with traditional-style US engines - they pull OK at the bottom end but just when you think things are about to get interesting performance-wise they run out of breathing/revs].

 

That is a rather blinkered and naive view to be quite frank. 

The LT as in LT1 and 4 used in the C4 era Corvettes is a completely different engine to the LS series. They share no common parts not even the same firing order. 

The LS1 was launched brand new in 1997 as a 5.7 litre (346cu not 350cu like earlier engines) as a clean sheet design. Variants of this engine are what are in production today. Up to 7.0 litres, supercharged, dry sumped and a host of other attributes. 

These engines pull fine at revs some have a 7500rpm redline. And none feel like the run out of revs or breathing. 

Have you actually owned or driven any LS powered vehicles?

The 5.7 versions I’ve got make peak torque at 4400rpm. But make over 95% of that torque from 1500rpm. They also respond very well to being modded. N/A for street use they can make 90bhp/litre. And then most are 6.0 litre or more that is rather a lot of power. Or you can super/turbocharge them. 

The OHV design means they are less tall and less long as DOHC designs. Making them much smaller overall. They are also generally pretty good on fuel and make very good performance numbers. 

[Gazzar]

Of course, there is two other genuine Landrover petrol engines, fitted as standard to Landrover gearboxes

The MPI as fitted to the Discovery, and the 2.5 petrol fitted as standard to 90 and 110 vehicles made by Rover.

G.

 

[FridgeFreezer]

To be fair, the LS lumps are still pushrod! But yeah, they are definitely a leap on from the Rover and do push things along in a satisfactory way, plus they will run underwater.

[Chicken Drumstick]

But it’s the push rods that allow them to be so compact. Really can’t see an issue with it. It’s not as of OHC is only a 21st century invention. 

Both Chevy and Dodge build OHV V8’s neither based on old designs. And can employ displacement on demand, variable timing and a host of other things. They also represent some of the most powerful production engines on sale today and often with best in class mpg as well. 

GM actually ditched their Northstar DOHC V8’s as they just didn’t offer enough benefits. And the Northstar is easily equal to any Jap/Euro V8. The last variants of them had 100,000 mile service intervals.