Paul Wightman Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 It's been a while since I let you lot into what is new on Piggy. I have to be honest in the past I found some of the "you don't want to do it like that" or "I know a bloke who does that but better" somewhat off putting so I don't want to get into heavy discussion thanks. In fact if anyone is genuinly interested I'll see you at FSWC and we can chat there! First the winch. Two 12v 6hp XP motors running on 24v water cooled. Second the steering. Hydraulic assist power steering. The winch was tried out on the Argyll and worked fine except the alternator was unable to supply the goods. Saying the winch worked fine is actually a lie, the drum went into self destruct with the ends turning into saucers and the drun bending. Plans are for a larger alternator (80A 24v) which I have but not yet fitted. Steering has been rigerously tested by driving to the MOT station (1 1/2 miles) and back. MOT passed and steering is SO positive it's going to take a little getting used to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Blimey! Water cooled winch motors! Don't know if this is a wind up or not , what with the water cooled fairlead fiasco!! Don't let 02 see that copper pipe - he'll have palpitations! Nice to see you don't let a bit of a heart attack slow you down Paul! Impressive kit as always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Paul, looks cool. How are you doing the water cooling on the motors? Is it a spearate circuit, with Radiator,etc or is it plumbed into the enging coolant? Is this what you call resting? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Paul Does this mean Piggy has a reprieve? How did the winch do at the Argyll event? and I notice a bolt in the end of the main shaft rather than the allen head one supplied any reason or just what was lying around. Glad to see your back and well Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Don't know if this is a wind up or not , what with the water cooled fairlead fiasco!! Funnily enough the water cooled fairleads crossed my mind as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 Bish, well remembered! This it’s for real, trust me! Mark, the water is the windscreen washer water circulated through the motor cooling pipes. I do have a 15l washer bottle and a Whale caravan pump to circulate the water. Tony, Piggy is a test bed at the moment till I get started on the new truck. The winch was fantastic at Argyll, the first section was a climb into the woods which was just too steep to drive with control so we winched and to say it was fast is an understatement, as the load increased there was little reduction in speed. The problem was the amount of winching through mud runs which proved too much for the alternator. When I buy anything from Jim (Gigglepin) I get the ‘last on the shelf’ or ‘not quite complete’ kit, so the kit is supplied with an Allen head screw is it? My recuperation is going well and I should be fully operational in another 4 weeks (or so the medics think!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Good News Paul glad you're fairing well. yes on the allen bolt and I'm having to paint it as the bluddy thing is rusting already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted September 30, 2006 Author Share Posted September 30, 2006 Good News Paul glad you're fairing well.yes on the allen bolt and I'm having to paint it as the bluddy thing is rusting already Tart! I wish I only had to worry about a screw going rusty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 What are the copper cooling coils exactly? I'm thinking of something similar to cool my fridgefreezer air compressor motors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 What a load of krap - I know a bloke............. I like the motor coolers - looks like something from a Boris Karloff movie! By the way, the bloke is you! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Paul, Pray, do tell us more about the copper tube (it certainly looks made for the job), retaining bands and the water system detail………….. Thanks……. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 The other really cool thing is that you have hot water in your windscreen washer jets bet not even a Merc S-class has a hot windscreen wash B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 same tube as seen in the Argyll pictures elsewhere looks like microbore copper tube formed around the winch motor body. any idea how warm the motors are getting/what sort of cooling is available from this mod? the winch looks like a piece of artwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Oooooooooooh you didnt wanna do it like that..........you wanted to make it pink and fluffy!!! Have to say, as ever, very nice Paul!! Out of interest are you still getting the problems with limescale in your washer tank? Cheers Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 http://www.gigglepin4x4.net/8274/twinmotor.htm vid of similar in action here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 Don't let 02 see that copper pipe - he'll have palpitations! Absolute classic line Anyway, back to sensible comments 0 Paul you have done a full "Solid works" analyisis on all this of course haven't you, or the "You shouldn't do it like that " bunch will be a tut tutting Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 looks like microbore copper tube formed around the winch motor body. But it's got a flat section - gives more contact area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 rubber mallet will soon have it a tad flatter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted September 30, 2006 Share Posted September 30, 2006 paul All i can say is HUBA HUBA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Glad to see you are getting back to things Paul- hope your recovery is going well mate. Was their a reason you went single cylinder over dual acting? i am looking at hydro assist at the moment- and almost everyone seems to use dual acting (although i don't know why). Did you go single acting for a certain reason? are you using your original box which you have tapped or have you gone orbitrol or similar? have you uprated the pump or are you getting enough flow off the LR item- i have to buy a new pump anyway so i will probably stick a new ZF4 pump in just to increase flow. p.s. love the winch- looks extremely well put together as ever- can't wait to see it in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Well done Paul. ...Was their a reason you went single cylinder over dual acting? i am looking at hydro assist at the moment- and almost everyone seems to use dual acting (although i don't know why). Did you go single acting for a certain reason?... The hyd cylinder looks double acting to me - I see 2 hyd hoses. Perhaps you meant double rod, so that piston area (thus force is equal in both directions)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 yep john, spot on. it's just me being thick again- i just assumed that Paul would know WTF i was talking about lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Wightman Posted October 1, 2006 Author Share Posted October 1, 2006 The copper tube is central heating micro-bore 8mm dia. This is wound onto a former on the lathe whilst being pulled through a pair of rollers mounted onto the tool post to flatten the tube to 5mm and to provide tension while forming the coil. The lathe saddle is driven in reverse screw cutting at 2 ½ tpi which tracks the tube onto the former for 10 revolutions and hey-presto a coil! To fit the coil to the motor, remove the heat sink/motor end cover, remove the F1 & F2 terminal bolts, fill the existing tapped earth hole in the motor body with silicone. Remove all paint where the coil will be and weld an M8 bolt to the motor body where the ‘other’ slot is in the end cover. Cover bare metal area of motor body and inside of coil with RS 554-311 heat sink compound and fit the coil. Now this bit is not as easy as it sounds because I made the coil a tad smaller than the motor body to ensure good surface contact. It put a damn good fight but I won in the end although I ended up wearing most of the compound! The coils are held on with stainless steel straps with folded ends to keep the coils together and a couple of jubilee clips. Plumbing is with nylon tubing and Festo push fit couplings. My windscreen bottle is in fact an aluminium tank under the passenger floor so teat dissipation should be good. The water is pumped with a Whale caravan pump which provides a good flow. I fitted a cheap inside/outside car thermometer with the outside temperature sender stuck to one of the motors. In Argyll the ambient was about 20c, I left the pump off while winching till the temp reached 35c, which took quite a while, then turned the pump on which gradually brought the temp down to 25c where it remained. I was surprised the motors did not produce more heat as the winching was quite intense. Jon, re the limescale, I had to fit a filter to the screen washers as the jets were constantly blocked. I hadn’t thought about the motor cooling, a filter may be a good idea. Anybody know the effects of using Calgon on windscreens and wiper blades or even paint? Steering ram is double acting. The use of a ‘double rod’ type of ram would have caused me problems as the body of the cylinder would have to be fixed to the axle but be allowed to pivot in one axis and allow a little movement in the 90 degree axis. Also to have clearance for the ‘other’ end of the ram. Using this type of ram does give equal force in both directions but I am prepared to have a bit more force in one direction for the sake of a ram that is easy to fit. My ram has a panhard rod bush in the axle end to allow movement in the required planes and a steering rod end on the piston rod. The drag link does rock from side to side as the steering direction changes, it remains to be seen if this is a problem. Steering box and pump are standard Range Rover and although the steering appears a little slow I don’t think this will be a problem. Fingers tired now, need tea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Nice one Paul This is probably a stupid question (since I have a mech winch and that's sat in the garden) but how hot do the motors get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 teat dissipation Something on your mind Paul....?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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