Return of Defender?

[Daan]

7 hours ago, Shackleton said:

The LR [we care about] can't meet the occupant or pedestrian tests. No you can't just move a few things around and sort it. You can't have proper crumple zones with a ladder chassis, and the only way you're going to meet pedestrian requirements is big flexible plastic bumpers and soft edges.... and without those things it just isn't Defender. The whole point was you could prang it off the field gatepost and it got better looking. The classic LR is dead. End of.

This statement is not quite correct; The new jeep wrangler that will come out this year has all the above features and meets all the regs.

 

Daan

[Maverik]

3rd April 2018...

 

[neil110]

On 8/26/2017 at 6:26 PM, Daan said:

This statement is not quite correct; The new jeep wrangler that will come out this year has all the above features and meets all the regs.

 

Daan

Indeed, but the difference is that the wrangler has a huge domestic market. I lived in america for a couple of years and there were hundreds of the things, but in that entire time I saw 1 other Defender. Yes I know that the Defender is a rare vehicle in Vespucci land but it isn't that popular anywhere else on earth either. Average annual sales for the final years of production hovered around the 18,000 mark. Jeep knocked out nearly 200,000 wranglers in 2012 alone. With that sort of production it makes economic sense to adapt a vehicle to meet new regulations. With a figure like 18,000 you would never recover the development cost.

Had LR kept Defender current and invested in it rather than doing the absolute minimum necessary to keep it selling it might all have been so different

[Davo]

On 8/30/2017 at 1:45 AM, neil110 said:

Indeed, but the difference is that the wrangler has a huge domestic market. I lived in america for a couple of years and there were hundreds of the things, but in that entire time I saw 1 other Defender. Yes I know that the Defender is a rare vehicle in Vespucci land but it isn't that popular anywhere else on earth either. Average annual sales for the final years of production hovered around the 18,000 mark. Jeep knocked out nearly 200,000 wranglers in 2012 alone. With that sort of production it makes economic sense to adapt a vehicle to meet new regulations. With a figure like 18,000 you would never recover the development cost.

Had LR kept Defender current and invested in it rather than doing the absolute minimum necessary to keep it selling it might all have been so different

That is precisely what is so confusing. An improved and supported vehicle would have sold well because, after all, other vehicles have proven the market is there, and JLR had the platform to improve. Either JLR doesn't want to have a workhorse or they're too dim to work out how to make one, unlike so many other manufacturers. I can't really see how there is a third scenario. 

[Snagger]

They had a blank cheque from the MoD, who begged them to develop a Wolf replacement well over a decade ago, but LR snubbed them.  That contract alone would have ensured sufficient return on the development costs, let alone emergency services, commercial users and foreign military sales.  It is a conscious choice to distance themselves from working vehicles.  They feel ashamed of blue collar connotations and only want to appeal to the Prada and Gucci set.   Look at all their adverts in the past ten years - all lifestyle orientated.

I have turned my back on the modern brand in just the same way they turned on everyone that made them what they are.  I will never buy a new Land Rover or one without live beam axles - anything with independent suspension is not a genuine Land Rover to me, just wear a badge of a previously great brand.

[Mo Murphy]

In the seventies Land Rover was the only BL brand making any money. Rather than invest that money back in Land Rover it was spent propping up the the rest of the loss making British Leyland empire and so the Land Rover range barely developed. 

Good old nationalisation.

Mo

[Peaklander]

Land Rover was also a pawn in the deals that ultimately resulted in it being sold to Ford. So whether or not LR snubbed the MOD sometime in the 2000s, those sort of decisions were likely to have been made in Ford HQ rather than in a LR office.

Personally I admire the efforts being made by Tata in seeking to make volume production at Jaguar and at LR, striving for profitability, alongside dramatically improving production quality. On brownfield sites this is no mean feat. 

[Davo]

On 9/1/2017 at 0:50 AM, Snagger said:

They had a blank cheque from the MoD, who begged them to develop a Wolf replacement well over a decade ago, but LR snubbed them.  That contract alone would have ensured sufficient return on the development costs, let alone emergency services, commercial users and foreign military sales.  It is a conscious choice to distance themselves from working vehicles.  They feel ashamed of blue collar connotations and only want to appeal to the Prada and Gucci set.   Look at all their adverts in the past ten years - all lifestyle orientated.

I have turned my back on the modern brand in just the same way they turned on everyone that made them what they are.  I will never buy a new Land Rover or one without live beam axles - anything with independent suspension is not a genuine Land Rover to me, just wear a badge of a previously great brand.

Yes, I'd agree. The old Rover company was embarrassed by the original Land-Rover doing so well, (reference: Land Rover history articles and books), and now the Captain Bling brigade seem to feel the same way about a workhorse. However, a good many economies are running on easy credit since the GFC and selling only high-end stuff just isn't a smart long-term strategy. (For anyone!) 

[Gazzar]

I am acquainted (don't know him well) with a chap that works at JLR, and according to him, the Deafener2 is still happening.  He was quite proud that it was going to have a hose down interior.

I wonder how the utility companies will view the new model: Western Power Distribution are already using some modern pickup thing, but the Environment Agency still stick with their defenders.

If I had the money I'd love to develop a decent utility light truck; I think the market is wide open for a simple  vehicle designed for long term use.

 

Nevermind.

 

G.

 

 

[Maverik]

On 29/08/2017 at 5:07 PM, Maverik said:

3rd April 2018...

 

Cough cough...