neil110 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 https://www.ft.com/content/923325aa-ff82-11e6-8d8e-a5e3738f9ae4 Let the argument commence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Seems only open to FT subscribers. Can anyone give a synopsis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 I found it on google, by entering return of defender Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 old article from March 2017 ----------------- enter return of defender into a google search it's the topmost result, Doubt it'll happen as JLR have to make the vehicle comply with all the current regs to be able to sell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 If you consider the abomination they've managed to turn the discovery into, I'd hate to think what they'll do to the defender. (Plus I do wish these damn articles would stop making out that the defender has been in production since 1948!) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) There seems to be any number of articles on line, mostly in US and Australian publications about the Defender replacement being offered for sale there, probably in 2018. Obviously the Defender replacement will have to meet all current and projected legislation in order for JLR to put it into production. http://frogcars.com/2018-land-rover-defender/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/07/land_rover_defender_comeback_2019/ I think the latest incarnation of the discovery is an unmitigated disaster, it is ugly, out of proportion and looks faintly ridiculous Quite agree about the Defender production since 1948 insertion in articles but in fairness it was Land Rover who started pushing that particular line Edited August 20, 2017 by neil110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I still think the legislation excuse was a lie, or at least heavily exaggerated - how can the Ford Transit pass the same emissions tests with the same engine and gear box, and how can the Jeep Wrangler meet US and EU safety criteria if the nearly identically constructed and proportioned Defender can't? I think it unlikely the replacement won't heavily bear the McGovern look. Everything else they make now looks the same, so why have a single model that looks markedly different? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 I can just see Toyota management pooping their pants in fear over this development . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Snagger said: I still think the legislation excuse was a lie, or at least heavily exaggerated - how can the Ford Transit pass the same emissions tests with the same engine and gear box, and how can the Jeep Wrangler meet US and EU safety criteria if the nearly identically constructed and proportioned Defender can't? I think it unlikely the replacement won't heavily bear the McGovern look. Everything else they make now looks the same, so why have a single model that looks markedly different? Quite agree, if a transit (probably in a higher state of tune) can pass emissions tests then surely a Defender using the same engine can do so. The problem with the deceased Defender was the lack of windbags, or any other form of protection, for its occupants. The difficulty being the amount of engineering and resultant costs required to fit windbags in Defender could not be justified for a vehicle with sales stagnating at around 14,000 a year. I would also imagine that the labour intensive production techniques made it a difficult vehicle to manufacture with the necessary level of profitability, quality and consistency. Trouble is that most of the articles I have seen tend to suggest that the new vehicle will be stuffed to the gills with technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 This is pretty much my opinion on it: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted August 21, 2017 Share Posted August 21, 2017 Can't be bothered really... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Anderzander, I think he's right about what a replacement will generally look like. I don't think it'll have any credibility as a working vehicle - it'll be a high price, high maintenance, electronics dependant platform like everything else they knock out. That is if it ever comes to fruition. This far past the oft extended end of the Defender, I don't think they have any real intention of delivering. It strikes me as having been a half hearted (probably opposed by many like McG) project, underfunded and rudderless, that'll quietly wither and die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romahomepete Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I think the main thing that killed the defender was build costs. I did the land rover tour at the end of production and it was expkained that building was very labour intensive. They compared the number of man hours yo build a defender bulkhead with the pressing costs of a range rover bulkhead. The problem seemed to be that to automate many of the procedures would require a complete redesign. I think all the other reasons for the end of production were red herrings. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 That's pretty much what the video says - Shared platforms and minimised costs is their direction of travel. It was simply about profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 8 hours ago, Romahomepete said: I think the main thing that killed the defender was build costs. I did the land rover tour at the end of production and it was expkained that building was very labour intensive. They compared the number of man hours yo build a defender bulkhead with the pressing costs of a range rover bulkhead. The problem seemed to be that to automate many of the procedures would require a complete redesign. I think all the other reasons for the end of production were red herrings. Peter I did the Reborn tour when they were doing series ones, our guide had worked on the Defender line for a loooong time and he said the same. They were too labour intensive to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 They could have moved production to India, but the reputation for reliability would have plunged (yeah, I know!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (can't resist...) What reputation for reliability is that sorry ? 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
=jon= Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) I do find it fascinating that LR are determined to chuck the defender out, and build something which everyone thinks will be not in the 'spirit' of it's predecessors, while Jeep seems to be able to keep the 'soul' of the Wrangler, bring out a new model on a new platform and still keep it pretty similar to how it's always looked. They are even bringing out a double cab pickup version called the 'Scrambler': http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/see-the-2018-jeep-scrambler-in-decent-detail-in-this-le-1798315106 I also think it's funny how they have a very girly reputation over here, when in reality they are comparable to what the Defender probably would have become had LR invested in keeping it updated - I had a 4 door wrangler as a hire car on holiday a few years back and it was actually very very good - more refined than a 110CSW petrol, drove nicely on road, went like stink compared (which it should with a 285BHP V6 in it!), and seemed to cope with off road situations OK (although being a responsible driver of hire cars I would never do this!) Edited August 23, 2017 by =jon= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It just struck me that the concept vehicle they actually built and showed a few years back (can't recall the name, DC1 or something like that?) suddenly looks really good if you consider what happened to the Discovery! Oh how the loyal fans screamed at that but maybe they shouldn't have. Meanwhile, I looked across the road at my neighbour's Discovery 3 yesterday and wondered if JLR considered that near enough identical to a 110 wagon that they thought they had their bases covered? Maybe for the slightly myopic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil110 Posted August 24, 2017 Author Share Posted August 24, 2017 Land Rover keep wittering that the dC100 concept isn't meant to be a replacement defender but if they put it into production it is intended to compete with things like the Nissan cashcow or juke. Given that they keep banging out ever more models of Range Rover, personally, I doubt they will replace Defender. When all is said and done they had 33 years to come up with a replacement and didn't manage it all that time. Plus with the name being absent from the market for a couple of years, core buyers have moved onto other vehicles. The enthusiast market for new Defender was always a vanishingly small proportion of sales so our viewpoint counts for just this side of nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 DC100! Duh, senior moment. Thanks Neil. Ironically, that prototype WAS a model of Range Rover, in that that it was made on a Range Rover Sport chassis. I also doubt they will properly replace the Defender. They promised they would but it won't be the world-conqueror of old. Largely because the world is now either tar-sealed or has a sign telling you to keep out! I suspect it will be an image thing, though no doubt super-competent in an electronic sort of way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Oh, there's still a huge market for workhorses, which is what makes the company's decision so baffling to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheffield Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 There is a hugh market for work horses, but it is mostly satisfied by Japanese pickups and similar. They can do what most people require, and given that many are just leased for 3 or 4 years they last long enough. The Defender is really over engineered for modern day requirements. and just too expensive. LR have turned their back on that market, and make more money selling high value vehicles to the well healed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Exactly! What some of us here see as a workhorse isn't needed by most people who are actually laying out the money. One place I work requires a four-wheel drive for access. The main contractor there recently switched from a Ford crew cab pickup to a Toyota equivalent and, within weeks, most of the tracks had been badly chewed up. Yet, if he used a Defender, they'd still be good as gold but he wouldn't even dream of getting one. The whole mindset now is use your Jap ute and carry a quad if you need more. Truth is that those Jap pickups are good enough because it has become easy to send in a digger/grader/dozer if the tracks are more demanding. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 It was always coming back, they had to make a point of killing it off so they could let the dust settle with the die hards, and generate a buzz before bringing back another badge engineered handbag. It's just marketing and PR. They need the Defender so that they can sell everything else. The Defender defines LR, without it it's a range of trinkets. There'd be no credibility if the linchpin of the whole deal was axed forever. The LR [we care about] can't meet the occupant or pedestrian tests. No you can't just move a few things around and sort it. You can't have proper crumple zones with a ladder chassis, and the only way you're going to meet pedestrian requirements is big flexible plastic bumpers and soft edges.... and without those things it just isn't Defender. The whole point was you could prang it off the field gatepost and it got better looking. The classic LR is dead. End of. How on Earth did the human race survive 20th century motoring!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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