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OT by a moaner :Stupid fog and aeroplanes


Turbocharger
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British invention autoland for planes in zero visibility - Over 40 years ago on the Hawker Siddley Trident. Trouble is poor old Captain Speaking then can't see if there is another aircraft in front of him on the taxiway as he trundles to the gate.... ;)

Of course there is a radar solution available to track the aircraft on the ground, but LHR hasn't got it.. Not to mention the place is bursting at the seems so the first hiccup causes it all to go mammeries up...

Then if we had decent investment in the trains.... but that's another rant.. :D

By the way its a VC10 in my pic, aah the golden age of British aviation..

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wonder if that VC10 is now a RAF tanker :unsure:

Well its actually G-ASGA which was the first "Super" VC10 and yes she was converted to a tanker. Unfortunately she was withdrawn from service this time last year and scrapped to provide parts for her sisters. Just found a picture of her being broken up, not a pretty sight :(

There are only about a dozen left now in service with the RAF (out of the 50+ odd built in total). They've done 40 years with the RAF and due to the continuing delays with their replacement they will definetly be around for the 45th aniversary, they might even make it to the 50th if they are enough spare parts....

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Well its actually G-ASGA which was the first "Super" VC10 and yes she was converted to a tanker. Unfortunately she was withdrawn from service this time last year and scrapped to provide parts for her sisters. Just found a picture of her being broken up, not a pretty sight :(

There are only about a dozen left now in service with the RAF (out of the 50+ odd built in total). They've done 40 years with the RAF and due to the continuing delays with their replacement they will definetly be around for the 45th aniversary, they might even make it to the 50th if they are enough spare parts....

Was probably one of the 6 ex-BA VC10's that were parked up at Abingdon when I was based there between Sept '87 & Aug '90.

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British invention autoland for planes in zero visibility - Over 40 years ago on the Hawker Siddley Trident. Trouble is poor old Captain Speaking then can't see if there is another aircraft in front of him on the taxiway as he trundles to the gate.... ;)

Of course there is a radar solution available to track the aircraft on the ground, but LHR hasn't got it.. Not to mention the place is bursting at the seems so the first hiccup causes it all to go mammeries up...

Then if we had decent investment in the trains.... but that's another rant.. :D

By the way its a VC10 in my pic, aah the golden age of British aviation..

Hopefully next year will see the Aviation Authorities certify "Enhanced Vision Systems", and with that, Infra Red for civil aircraft, then you get good visibility in pretty much any conditions, while still seeing the real world. certification will allow reduction of required visibility minima by up to 1/3, (would mean none of the cancellations or delays we have just had) for take off and landing.

Oddly enough, it is BMW who have made the IR cameras cheap enough to be widely availiable for civil aviation.

Nick

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The biggest problem is that Turbocharger is flying into Bristol, and that is on top of a hill so very often fogged out. They only have cat 2 ILS, so need (I think) 220 ft cloudbase and 500 metres visibility (Can't be sure, but it's something like that - I can only go to cat 1 - 500ft cloudbase and 1800 metres vis). Bristol / Cardiff can never get any better than cat 2 (ie autoland) because of the terrain before the runway. He is flying with Eastern airways, and they are using ex BA Jetstream 41's. Great aircraft, but quite old technology.

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We have one here, beautiful things especially with a couple of Tornado F3's breast feeding off the wings :)

Beautiful :)

I flew in a BA VC10 once (from Baghdad to London) - on the runway it went off like a sports car compared to the bus-like feeling of the (then fairly new) Jumbo that I had used for the first part of the journey from Delhi. Lovely aircraft...

I don't know... Spitfire, Tempest, Hunter, Lightening, TSR2, VC10, E-type, Land Rover, Jensen FF, Jaguar MkII, BSA Rocket 3, Vincent Black Lightening, Velocette Thruxton, BSA Gold Star, 997 Mini Cooper, Lotus Elan (original), Lotus 7, etc etc etc. All of them real engineering designed by real people and all achingly beautiful. None of them would get past a modern accountant with his 'return-on-investment' analysis... Where did we go wrong?

Sorry to wander off topic like that, but I reckon that everybody that reads the above list will go misty-eyed about something on there. Remember when you were ten and you had that sectioned drawing that you would stare at for hours? I still do ;)

Rog

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British invention autoland for planes in zero visibility - Over 40 years ago on the Hawker Siddley Trident. Trouble is poor old Captain Speaking then can't see if there is another aircraft in front of him on the taxiway as he trundles to the gate.... ;)

Don't forget the BAC 1-11's, the one we had at Boscombe is the ex-Bedford test bed that did a lot of autoland trials, and the following I also found:

The Caravelle had its first autoland test ( although in Cat 2 ), in 1962 and the first autoland in the US in 1964, and was certified to this standard in September 1964. First passenger airline to be authorized to do Cat 2 auto landings was Alitalia, in spring 1966. Cat 3 certification came in early 1967 and by that date, the Caravelle already executed 10.000 automatic approaches with 3500 that included automatic touchdowns as well.

so it pre-dates the Trident tests by two years ;)

But anyhoo, XX105, the autoland aircraft:

0521340.jpg

We're still using these old tubs for trials even today

0998023.jpg

and training future test pilots

0782928.jpg

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I thought all the BAC1-11's had gone to the big scrapyard, good to see 3 still working hard.

unfortunately xx105 has been parked-up now, but ZH763 and ZE432 are still working hard, with ZE433 now stationed at QinetiQ from FRA, having done the flight trials of Blue Circle or what ever the name of the RADAR is that will be fitted to Typhoon, now proceeding with further flight trials of some highly hushed-up kit <cough> sensors </cough>

XX105's retirement flight:

QinetiQ News

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I don't know... Spitfire, Tempest, Hunter, Lightening, TSR2, VC10, E-type, Land Rover, Jensen FF, Jaguar MkII, BSA Rocket 3, Vincent Black Lightening, Velocette Thruxton, BSA Gold Star, 997 Mini Cooper, Lotus Elan (original), Lotus 7, etc etc etc. All of them real engineering designed by real people and all achingly beautiful. None of them would get past a modern accountant with his 'return-on-investment' analysis... Where did we go wrong?

one word: Concorde.

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unfortunately xx105 has been parked-up now, but ZH763 and ZE432 are still working hard, with ZE433 now stationed at QinetiQ from FRA, having done the flight trials of Blue Circle or what ever the name of the RADAR is that will be fitted to Typhoon, now proceeding with further flight trials of some highly hushed-up kit <cough> sensors </cough>

XX105's retirement flight:

QinetiQ News

Ha Ha the old Tornado F3 Blue Circle joke, havent heard that for a while. For those who don't know there were long development problems with the radar so the 1st few aircraft flew with concrete (cement, blue circle) blocks in their noses to maintain the aircraft centre of gravity.

Typhoon has got the ECR90 radar (90 being the decade they thought the aircraft would enter service, so much for SMART defence procurement, don't get me started on that rant, the RN may loose another 6 frigates and destroyers to pay for the current procurement mess on other projects)

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Ha Ha the old Tornado F3 Blue Circle joke, havent heard that for a while. For those who don't know there were long development problems with the radar so the 1st few aircraft flew with concrete (cement, blue circle) blocks in their noses to maintain the aircraft centre of gravity.

Typhoon has got the ECR90 radar (90 being the decade they thought the aircraft would enter service, so much for SMART defence procurement, don't get me started on that rant, the RN may loose another 6 frigates and destroyers to pay for the current procurement mess on other projects)

:D Strange how things jog youre memory !. I spent many happy hours between Germany and Canada on VC10,s , mostly 10&12 squadron. We sat facing bacwards as per RAF saftey rules. I flew on the last RAF Britanian flight out of Guterslow to Calgary via Newfoundland. Try 48 hours in a Hercules,Calgary to Goose Bay, Reclavic, Preswick , Lyeham, Wunsdorf, Guterslow now thats painfull. My boss kept telling me to stop shouting for a week. That all came about when our trusty VC10 went unserviceable at Calgary. I spent nearly a month working on a ranch waiting for the RAF to sort things out.

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one word: Concorde.

Ahh yes - Concorde was on my original list, but I removed it because I thought that some may object to it on grounds of the French connection..

On the Blue Circle radar thing - I once spoke to one of the aerodynamicists at BAe Wharton who had worked on Tornado on the air defence variant (the one that had the special radar). He was an engineer of the old school who had never liked the 'computer optimised' shape of the original Tornado because is 'looked' (to his experienced eyes) to be too stubby in the nose, and when the new radar came along which meant putting an extra metre length in between the ogive and the canopy, he saw the drawings and thought 'that looks better'... On the first test flight (with concrete ballast) it apparently out-performed the standard plane by significant margins in all areas!

Incidentally - I was at Wharton to look at a Lightening with regard to fitting it with demolition charges: It was to be run as a radio controlled FSDTA (full scale drone target aircraft) in some missile trials and they wanted to be able to bring it down if they lost control of it. I designed charges to cut the wings off amongst other things... It never flew - budgetary cuts... :(

Rog

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The biggest problem is that Turbocharger is flying into Bristol, and that is on top of a hill so very often fogged out. They only have cat 2 ILS, so need (I think) 220 ft cloudbase and 500 metres visibility (Can't be sure, but it's something like that - I can only go to cat 1 - 500ft cloudbase and 1800 metres vis). Bristol / Cardiff can never get any better than cat 2 (ie autoland) because of the terrain before the runway. He is flying with Eastern airways, and they are using ex BA Jetstream 41's. Great aircraft, but quite old technology.

I've just flown into Bristol about 2 hours ago. Cloudbase was 0m & ground visiblity about 100m. I guess they upgraded.

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Well its actually G-ASGA which was the first "Super" VC10 and yes she was converted to a tanker. Unfortunately she was withdrawn from service this time last year and scrapped to provide parts for her sisters. Just found a picture of her being broken up, not a pretty sight :(

There are only about a dozen left now in service with the RAF (out of the 50+ odd built in total). They've done 40 years with the RAF and due to the continuing delays with their replacement they will definetly be around for the 45th aniversary, they might even make it to the 50th if they are enough spare parts....

I flew back from Iraq on an RAF VC10 and was very concerned to find out that the plane was older than me!

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I flew back from Iraq on an RAF VC10 and was very concerned to find out that the plane was older than me!

You should be more concerned to know that some of the airframe spares fitted in the last 15 years were probably made by a certain company I used to work for... :o

(I walked out after a 'disagreement' with the factory manager over what constitutes a 'crack' in a component...)

Rog

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I flew back from Iraq on an RAF VC10 and was very concerned to find out that the plane was older than me!

aah but they built things to last back then, the newest RAF VC10 is now over 40 years old. But the dual purpose troop carriers/tankers, have flown less hours than the tanker only variants, which are all ex airline..

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