Jump to content
L19MUD

OT Perkins A3.152 Run dry of water

Recommended Posts

Sorry this is a little off topic - the engine in question is the early indirect injection version fitted to a Fordson Dexta tractor (I did pick it up with the Landy)

The previous owner allowed it to run dry of coolant due to a radiator leak and continued to use it until in his words 'it went boom' I was expecting the tractor to have some fairly obvious signs of head gasket failure or worse from being overheated.

I filled it up with water and It starts up and runs well, sounds normal. I did a compression test and got figures of 300psi on two cylinders and 340psi on the third. This seems fairly normal I would think?

The issue is that it is breathing very badly from the rocker cover breather pipe, once it starts to warm up it appears that there is steam coming out of the breather. There is no evidence of water in the oil but I guess this issue has just happened as he stopped using it as soon as he had a problem.

Had the rocker cover off and all looks good in there. I guess I am going to have to have the head off to investigate further, what are peoples thoughts to what is causing this? Head gasket? cracked head? or worst case slipped dry liner?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rings may have picked up on the liner.  Lift the head and look for vertical scoring down the bore.  I had this happen to a Perkins 4203.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, rtbarton said:

The rings may have picked up on the liner.  Lift the head and look for vertical scoring down the bore.  I had this happen to a Perkins 4203.

I think head off has to be the next thing to do - why would I be getting steam from the breather though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that would be due to damaged head gasket.  Is there a smell to the fumes/steam?  If you can smell aluminium then IME that would be piston/bore damage, in any event, the head's got to come off.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smoke from the rocker (from blowby) can quite often look like steam, as above, try the sniff test and see.

Nice little power unit :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, rtbarton said:

I guess that would be due to damaged head gasket.  Is there a smell to the fumes/steam?  If you can smell aluminium then IME that would be piston/bore damage, in any event, the head's got to come off.. 

No it does not seem to smell, I have been laying next to the tractor smelling it like a weirdo all weekend!!

 

40 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

Smoke from the rocker (from blowby) can quite often look like steam, as above, try the sniff test and see.

Nice little power unit :)

What I am confused about is why are my compression test numbers decent with this much blowby?

 

They are excellent little engines though - We also have 2 Massey 135's with the later direct injection version of this engine and they never cause any problems and start in any temperature with no heat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pressures you are measuring are due to the pistons compressing air at low revs, once you get the engine running I reckon the pressure will be 10 times your measured pressure, so a lot of gas will blow through a relatively small hole.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i must say 1960's Fordsons are easier to work on than TDV8 Range Rovers! Head off easily in less than an hour and a half. Its a copper gasket so its not so easy to spot if it has blown. 

 

On the plus side all three bores look good with no scoring. 

Pictures.... What do people think? 

 

DSC_1307.thumb.JPG.a2c8da2b2de60a54a9a28d9a8dd2c606.JPGDSC_1309.thumb.JPG.71ec463fceb460fbb904256f3467acc4.JPGDSC_1308.thumb.JPG.aeb6e7f371dfb90e84e7efb12c0b156e.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top cylinder in first pic, and right cylinder in middle pic look like could have been blowing into triangular water port?

These old engine are lovely to work on, headgasket changed in 2.5 hours on an A series, as a recent example. Plus, not being a land rover, everything weighs half of what you expect! Not sure about the last bit on your engine though ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

Top cylinder in first pic, and right cylinder in middle pic look like could have been blowing into triangular water port?

Agreed  - that is the only thing that looks possible. I didn't want to put words in peoples mouths though!

I think it would be sensible to get the head pressure tested as well as skimmed

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get them to check for flatness first (or do it yourself), much cheaper than a skim!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How daft to run it without water.  Was water too expensive? The 'boom' is slightly worrying though.If possible I'd inspect the bores really carefully, it could have picked up or cracked between the bores

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks blown to me...

 

se circled areas in the pics....

1.jpg.6f53ec717c45e1f6ccea5d2ff9228734.jpg

2.jpg.fe3ece4896116f181bdaa4461cd1b676.jpg

3.jpg.f0ba8036092347f3118f08ab78dfd674.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, cackshifter said:

How daft to run it without water.  Was water too expensive? The 'boom' is slightly worrying though.If possible I'd inspect the bores really carefully, it could have picked up or cracked between the bores

I think he knew there was a bit of a leak but had not realised how bad/that all the water had run out. That's a fair point and I can easily check closely now the head is off  - they are liners so cracking is possible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, qwakers said:

looks blown to me...

 

se circled areas in the pics....

 

 

 

that's what I am hoping

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sent the head off to be pressure checked for piece of mind (£40) and had it skimmed (£30). All came back good and a through inspection of the liners/bores show no problems other than a bit of a lip at the top which is acceptable.

 

Few pictures of it being cleaned up and going back together518483661_head2.thumb.jpg.0a8f6adcc45292f9558a044663c520c4.jpg391576125_head3.thumb.jpg.f1cfbb2d8a79e5f53a7dabfc943eff27.jpg1978492601_head4.thumb.jpg.e333975fb467c2d818e5bcdafc43e38a.jpghead1.thumb.jpg.5dac9cb43828db9316644542e06fec28.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks lovely,.... its the start of a slippery slope though, when the engine runs like a swiss watch you'll want the hydraulics to work better and then the bodywork will want tidying....... :ph34r:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Blanco said:

Looks lovely,.... its the start of a slippery slope though, when the engine runs like a swiss watch you'll want the hydraulics to work better and then the bodywork will want tidying....... :ph34r:

I have already bought some paint to tidy it up :hysterical:

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks great, I've got similar work to do on my Nuffield universal 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realised I never came back to this thread. After getting it all together it was still difficult to start and breathing badly. I took the plunge and stripped it all back down again and popped the pistons out. A little bit of a pain to do as the front axle has to come off to remove the sump.

 

What I found was broken piston rings! All the rings were replaced and it now starts easily and does not breath. I also gave her a little tidy up

 

2032543252_Dexta1.thumb.jpg.0cb41aac2d27f77f53c230a1ec930d33.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....and she is looking lovely :)

 

Hopefully that is it for the next 50,000 hours :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy