Badger110 Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 After our buzzard rescue, it was time for the wife to injure herself at work and we spent last night at the MIU having her foot looked at. It wasn't great, ligament damage in the foot so she's on her arse for the next few weeks which means i'm doing horse care, dog care and everything she used to do as well as build the Landy...It's a good job i love her Tonight, i spent the time finishing off the phenolic ply suround for the hole itself. It's screwed and glued all the way around. Next job is to 2 part filler the holes, sand down and primer. Originally i wanted to GRP the roof onto this upstand, but with the difficulties presented with GRPing onto an aluminium roof, i'm taking the gamble that using good flexible adhesives to help attach the timbers to the roof as well asfixing and clamping the roof between both timbers i reckon i'll be good. This area will onyl be exposed when the roof is up. I'll also seal around the timber with whatever they've used to seal between the roof panels, it seems to accept the paint very well. I have no idea how the timber will accept the paint, but i'll primer it first. A side note on the phenolic ply as i'm using it in a few places on the build. I typically use Buffalo Board which is a brand of phenolic plywood. it is made with Birch play and rated at about BB/B ( BB/A is the highest and used in joinery work, especially where it's imperative to have a perfect finish and laminate ) some times it can be a little lower on some of the laminate sheets like shown here; This can look bad, but given the use of the plywood as a structural system, it's not a concern for me. Last week the local suppliers dropped off an 18mm sheet and with my mind elsewhere i cut it into the sections i wanted and carried on, but when i came to use it, it failed. teh strongest part of plywood is perpendicular to the laminated sheets. This gives the maximum strength in fixing. However in this build i need the phenolic finish to be the facing side so it requries me to drill through the laminates. On the sheet i received last week, this showed the lower grade BB plywood i had by splitting along the laminate; When you compare this to the standard stuff i usually get you can see the difference. The lower section is Buffalo Board and drilled/countersunk near the end of the board, the upper is drilled and countersunk halfway along. The top one has failed. Also i noticed the top layer was delaminating under the protective cover; To sum up, if you are using timber for structural work, then buy the best you can. Although i paid the same price and the suppliers were happy to replace the sheet with the correct graded BB phenolic plywood, it pays to check your sheets. The cheaper sheet was ( apparently ) from Asia, which doesn't even prodcue BB plywood! Chinese knock off anyone?! The hinge bracket was made yesterday with the inferior plywood, so that is in the bin for fire kindling now and it was time to make another one up. If you've been following from the beginning, you will know that the GRP bedford roof is larger than the Landy roof with wise. It's about 65mm each side. I have sat and thought long and hard of how to get over this, spent some time chatting with people on here about doing it and with a local company who specialise in GRP repair and boat building, but i decided against cutting the roof and removing a section. Instead i have decided to ' extend ' the roof width at a few points to allow to the GRP roof to be unmolested. Once the awnings are fitted eother side of the Landy, then you'll probably not really notice the extra width. I'm pretty good with wood ( wood butcher by trade ) so i'm happy with this decision. Once i made this decision i went along with a tapered timber section which will be bolted through the roof and onto a similar one on the inside to give it some strength. I will probably change the set up inside to have this bolted through the roof and onto part of the box section framework that it is to take the linaer actuators and strengthen the whole hole in the roof. So the external frame mock up to take the hinges looks like this; I was looking at replacing this with a nylon beam which i could taper to match but the cost isn't cheap ( £185 for the rough size ) We're back to the phenolic which will be used to replace the piece of 3x2. I ripped down the ply into 40mm strips; Then plenty of glue and clamps and time to leave it to go off overnight; That's it for tonight Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Good info on choosing ply - we had some utter junk out of B&Q during the ambulance conversion. Where's good to buy quality wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 24 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: Good info on choosing ply - we had some utter junk out of B&Q during the ambulance conversion. Where's good to buy quality wood? I've always bought stuff from my local timber yard. They do the usual carp softwood stuff but decent hardwood ply too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said: Good info on choosing ply - we had some utter junk out of B&Q during the ambulance conversion. Where's good to buy quality wood? Almost any where other than b&q. That said totton timber are pretty good if your Southampton way. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 As said, a local timber yard or somewhere that you can talk to someone who has some idea of what they are selling. Builder's yards are ok, but if you want something like BB ply, they don't usually stock it unless it's phenolic ply. All plywood has it's use's for different applications though, you can buy some flimsy softwood core stuff from Asia which isn't good for panelling, but will suffice as a base layer for stiffening up a floor before tiling. It really does depend on what you want it for. Structural plywood has good shearing stabiltiy but can be 3mm laminates and you would use it behind plasterboard to strengthen a wall. BB plywood is the best at 1.5mm laminate size, however that comes in grades from A to E with A being best. I've found lately that asian plywood is good for work that can't be seen, ie providing structure or mass to a project. Russian or Eastern European is better for the above but with a seen finish That said, OSB is brilliant alternative to plywood in some applications, ie roof or walls. It isn't as good for any shearing applications ( squaring off walls ) as it's grab ( fixing through it with a nail/screw ) isn't as strong but you can compensate with using a glue to bond it to the frame work as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Sometimes the day just isn’t meant to happen. loaded up the GRP roof to realise the material has been stuck and fixed on upside down 🤬🤬 had to remove it, including all the glue, staples and strips. Also the linear actuators are too long to replace what’s there as they push the roof horizontally as the angle is nearly 90 degree in their parked position. A simple error but annoying that I made it in the 1st place. I can re position them or order some smaller ones. Time to walk away and do something else and come back with a clearer head in a day or two 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'm quite sure it happens to all of us at some point chin up regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 2, 2020 Author Share Posted February 2, 2020 Indeed it does, i'll come back to it tomorrow with a clear head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 We are currently 'learning' how to spray a land rover roof. It's certainly an experience and one which i am sure i'll get the hang of soon. There are no pictures to accompany this transition at the moment, and all other pictures supplied in the future will probably be from a distance of 300 yards or more 😂 On a serious note, it is completely new to me, this kind of spraying. I've worked on houses and clubs quite abit with our spray equipment, but vehicle paint is NOT forgiving. i'm using our baby sprayer ( Graco HVLP 9.5 Turboforce2 Procontractor ) to do it which is a very competant sprayer and perhaps not the normal compressor style, but it works on a 5 stage turbine to provide the air. It has full settings available for air and fluid and 3 different needle sizes. I went for the largest to really reduce the fluid at the tip. It's understanding how the paint reacts and settles to the roof that is the biggest learnign curve. Preperation was good but i cocked it up in a few places by not cleaning it down properly so when the paint settled it left huge marks where it reacted to something still on the roof. I have run out of paint, so ordered some more and will continue to plug away at it until i get it right. I'm not expecting professional results but i'll be happy if it's passable and at least even on the roof. The downside is the underside of the roof which i see when driving...this is the most difficult place to spray and will be the most visible to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 No pixel peeping! this is the first ‘ top coat ‘ I guess, I had an accident with sprayer and in my enthusiasm didn’t tighten the locknut right up so I had leakage from my cup with all the waving the gun around so there are a few blobs here n there but not tooooooo bad. There is some good news with the roof which I’ll cover next week, exciting stuff which has been the cause of the lack of progress and posting which I know you’re all quietly sad about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Looks great from Southampton..... Seriously though it's the roof no one will see it. Mike 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 23, 2020 Author Share Posted February 23, 2020 ‘It’s good practice for the doors which are arriving soon 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 I used to paint cars for a living, but that was years ago. I have tried HVLP, but could not get a decent finish out of the gun. Using water based paints I think it would be OK, but as they blow warm air, I feel it will start to evaporate the thinner before the paint has time to settle on the surface. Not really had the opportunity to experiment...….. unless someone else is paying 😄 Must pay particular attention to the manufacturers data sheet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 If anyone can assist here. im getting odd results from the paint or perhaps I’m doing something wrong? I have an off coloured overspray. I’ve also noted that the spray doesn’t produce the flakes all the time. You can see on the back piece where there is a curve of discoloured paint against normal guns are methodically cleaned and pots too after each spray. The discoloured effect happens after halfway through a pot ( the front was done last ) Maybe I should only do half pot and the refill rather than running it low. any more pointers welcome 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Keep swiling the paint in the gun to stop it settling in the gun. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 It's a little difficuly with HVLP as the liquid is compressed in a malable liner with air, but i will give it a wiggle as i'm working it ( the pot is below the gun ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Paint is not atomizing properly. However, I do not know why it should get worse halfway through a pot, unless it is not properly mixed, or maybe rapid hardener that has gone off ? What sort and make of paint is it ? What thinner/hardener ratio are you using ? I would try smallest needle first, and maybe more thinners. Maybe you are too close. ? Difficult to help without knowing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arjan Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Spraying your Land Rover takes a lot of courage ! The Mrs. did the 110 and it is not bad at all. Your roof looks good - and it is the roof. I have a roof here that needs to be done soon, once a big hole is cut in it, and she is really looking forward to it. Need to re-seal the gutter to roof first.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 15 hours ago, smallfry said: Paint is not atomizing properly. However, I do not know why it should get worse halfway through a pot, unless it is not properly mixed, or maybe rapid hardener that has gone off ? What sort and make of paint is it ? What thinner/hardener ratio are you using ? I would try smallest needle first, and maybe more thinners. Maybe you are too close. ? Difficult to help without knowing more. I’ve not used a laquer on it yet, I was considering this; https://www.nuagane.co.uk/15-lt-2k-lacquer-and-activator--hardener-kit-1-lt-2-pack-clear-500ml-activator-290-p.asp this seems ok. I’ll flatten what I’ve done and another coat then apply this. do I apply the laquer when the final coat has just been applied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Badger110 said: I’ve not used a laquer on it yet, I was considering this; https://www.nuagane.co.uk/15-lt-2k-lacquer-and-activator--hardener-kit-1-lt-2-pack-clear-500ml-activator-290-p.asp this seems ok. I’ll flatten what I’ve done and another coat then apply this. do I apply the laquer when the final coat has just been applied? Its not a make I have heard of, but its cheap ! Not saying there is anything wrong with it though. Your basecoat does look a bit spotty, but it might look better after flatting, but DO NOT expect a lacquer to hide any "blemishes", as it will not. The basecoats will always look a bit lacklustre in any case, its the lacquer that brings it to life and gives the gloss. DO NOT apply the lacquer before the basecoat is properly dry. You have no doubt seen cars around with peeling bonnets and the like ? This is caused by applying the lacquer too soon, as most lacquers have a different composition. Allow at least 24 hours before applying lacquer, and preferably longer if the garage is not heated. At this time of year you need some heat just to make sure the surfaces are not at all damp, as this also can cause lack of gloss AND peeling. I always try to do this sort of stuff in the summer if possible because of this. However, if its too hot, this can also cause problems. Also, IF the lacquer should go wrong or be unsatisfactory for any reason, do not overcoat with a different product or another brand too soon, as it can sometimes react very badly (crackle finish) if the products are not compatible. Sorry if this is a bit "Sucking eggs, a guide for Grandmothers" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 No sucking eggs here As i said, i'm very new to this and the roof is an ideal place to start ( as no one is going to see it! ) I'll keep in mind your advice and post the results soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 18 hours ago, Badger110 said: No sucking eggs here As i said, i'm very new to this and the roof is an ideal place to start ( as no one is going to see it! ) I'll keep in mind your advice and post the results soon! Actually, I try to find a bit of panel that isn't even part of the car I am painting to get the spray gun set up with (an old microwave, even some cardboard can work). I only occasionally paint a vehicle and forget settings in between doing it, or end up using a different compressor or spray gun, so it's essential to get things sorted before I go near the car. I suggest you do the same. A couple of other things to note: Make sure there is a moisture trap in your airline and that it is not just plugged straight into the compressor as water needs a few feet of line to condense out. Otherwise, you will be going along nicely when a lump of gloop suddenly ruins the panel. And don't forget you can be better off just getting wet and dry sandpaper and removing a bad coat gently, rather than trying to fix a problem by throwing more paint at it. Go on the internet and search for how to set up a spray gun. It is straightforward but easy to do it sub-optimally, so getting a good understanding of the theory helps no end. Finally, before even putting any paint in, practice moving the gun at the right angle, speed and distance and squeezing and releasing the trigger while the gun is moving. It looks like you do have that sussed already but it's the most important part of the job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallfry Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I haven't actually looked it up, but I think Mr Badger is using a HVLP air pump thingy (technical term) Its like a Hoover in reverse, so it blows warm air, so no moisture trap is necessary. If one IS using a moisture trap, DONT leave it laying on its side on the floor, hang it properly, and DO actually empty the bloody thing 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Technically like a hoover but backwards. Yup that sums it up but it was a bloody expensive hoover! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger110 Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 I’ve got an operation due on Tuesday so I’m trying to get stuff done before I’m incapacitated for a few weeks and in my tidying up today I wheeled out the welder I was given years ago. bought a few bits for it and decided to have a go and see what’s possible. I watched a few videos and read FF’s thread about what he’s up to on his course and put into practice, hopefully what may have sunk into the grey matter with regards to it all. i had a practice on some 4mm bar I had and think I got the hang on the settings i tried to weld a right angle or 2 bits together as I call them; this looked alright and is pretty strong as in I can’t snap the weld so I guess that’s not too bad? Next up was trying to weld some square tube, about 2mm thick that I found. The point of this was I need to weld up a sub frame on the roof to compensate for the great hole in it and to take the bed and rams so I figured to practice on this scrap bit is a good learning practice I wanted to try some angles first but I think I did something wrong with the 90degree as it snapped when I put a fair amount of pressure on it. I welded all 4 sides and grinded down the outer edges before trying to snap it...which it did! previous attempts on this piece of tube has caused holes which I then learnt to fill in and a few other issues. looking at the welds, it looks like it didn’t penetrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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