200Tdi into S2a LWB Safari

[murphyclan]

Hi I am looking for a bit of advice, I have no doubt the topic has been covered plenty of times, but here goes I have a 1969 LWB Safari project vehicle that was originally a 6 pot but that now has a 2.25 fitted this was probably done in the past as the engine has given up the ghost, last week I managed to get my hands on a 1991 Disco, well what remained of it as most of it fell to bits on the way home.

Now I am not new to this game as well I have lost count the amount of Land rovers that i have had mainly series and I have done a few engine swaps including fitting a transit engine in my last series again this was originally a 6 pot, what I am looking for has anyone done this conversion as the engine space is a lot larger and what should I look out for, what needs to be modified to get this in. I am hoping to start this project once I have finished restoring my motorhome so its going to be a few months away yet. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Google Steve Parkers. All the info is on there, as well as conversion kits for the bits.

IMO:

1. Don't go down the Di route (no turbo) it is one of the most pointless conversions IMO

2. Consider PAS at the same with a p38 box. If you don't go PAS you'll have to do more work to remove the pump etc anyway

3. Lots of options for an intercooler, the Steve Parker solution is pricey. The Tdi will function fine without one however, although a stock Td5 or generic ebay intercooler could probably be reto fitted with relative ease

4. Consider not doing this. I love the Tdi as a power plant, in terms of performance and power delivery, but they are probably the least refined and most noisy engine built by Land Rover. In a Series they are not overly pleasant. The perform well and offer pretty good mpg. But if you aren't doing many miles, a Rover V8 would make for a much better conversion. Or if you are looking at a 5 speed upgrade too, then the Td5

[Gazzar]

This might be a problem: the disco manifolds are low down and, usually hit the LWB chassis without modification.

 

However, with the 6 pot, the engine is a good bit further back, you might be okay, the chassis curves down quite fast.

Plus you might be able to fit the viscous fan, and finally the radiator outputs might line up better than on the 4 pot conversions.

 

Is it the same belhousing as the 4 pot?

 

A recon 6 pot does make a lot of sense, if you can get one.

[Stellaghost]

300tdi exhaust manifold makes life easier than 200 tdi one did this to my lightweight pretty straightforward  conversion regards Stephen 

[murphyclan]

Hi and thanks for the input, the safari has been converted to a 4 pot god knows when, I have checked out a couple of things online but they have always been conversions of 4 pot land rovers not any with the 6 chassis and bulkhead.

[steve b]

The 6 is the same gearbox stud pattern as the S1 IOE engines , a standard series3 bellhousing will allow a Tdi to bolt up . If it's not a daily then a decent 2 1/4 or 2.5 petrol would be good , a 6 would be lovely .

...you could always go with a newer 6 petrol with MS .. my 2A '62 109sw will (all being well ) be a 3.0 IOE 6 . That said it's about No5. on the project list but I do try to run a few projects together .

Gazzar might be right with the manifold clearance , swing it in for a trial line up first .

cheers

Steve b

 

[murphyclan]

8 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Google Steve Parkers. All the info is on there, as well as conversion kits for the bits.

IMO:

1. Don't go down the Di route (no turbo) it is one of the most pointless conversions IMO

2. Consider PAS at the same with a p38 box. If you don't go PAS you'll have to do more work to remove the pump etc anyway

3. Lots of options for an intercooler, the Steve Parker solution is pricey. The Tdi will function fine without one however, although a stock Td5 or generic ebay intercooler could probably be reto fitted with relative ease

4. Consider not doing this. I love the Tdi as a power plant, in terms of performance and power delivery, but they are probably the least refined and most noisy engine built by Land Rover. In a Series they are not overly pleasant. The perform well and offer pretty good mpg. But if you aren't doing many miles, a Rover V8 would make for a much better conversion. Or if you are looking at a 5 speed upgrade too, then the Td5

Hi i have had a look on the site and its quite in depth, the turbo is staying, not sure about PAS. I have saved the intercooler so I could part ex it , my son wanted a V8 as he is hoping when we get round to doing it that it will end up with him as he part owns it, I like the TD5 I had a disco and it ran like a dream but the 200Tdi will do me for now, maybe in the future.

 

[murphyclan]

1 hour ago, steve b said:

The 6 is the same gearbox stud pattern as the S1 IOE engines , a standard series3 bellhousing will allow a Tdi to bolt up . If it's not a daily then a decent 2 1/4 or 2.5 petrol would be good , a 6 would be lovely .

...you could always go with a newer 6 petrol with MS .. my 2A '62 109sw will (all being well ) be a 3.0 IOE 6 . That said it's about No5. on the project list but I do try to run a few projects together .

Gazzar might be right with the manifold clearance , swing it in for a trial line up first .

cheers

Steve b

 

Our first Series was a S3 6 cylinder and the big end went but I managed to replace it with a 2.6 from a rover with the Westlake head now that was fun to drive and thirsty, this project is on hold so I can finish restoring our Talbot motorhome, i have been ordered to by the boss before I start the Landy but I am itching to get going, my son is considering a 72 S3 LWB pickup with truck cab so there maybe another project coming my way.

[Snagger]

I think you will have problems with the turbo, as Gary said.  It fits with some tinkering on 88s, but the deeper chassis of a 109 fouls.  I had exactly that issue fitting a Discovery 200Tdi to my 109.  The two simple ways around it are to fit either Defender manifolds and turbo or 300Tdi manifolds and turbo.

PAS is a wonderful addition, and does save a lot of messing about with the front pulleys and alternator mountings, but will make routing air hoses for the 200 Defender manifolds a headache, so 300 manifolds and air ducting would be an easier fit with the 200 Discovery ancillaries.

[Landrover17H]

I'm with Drumstick on this, if it's cheap power you want, and if it's a  weekender toy, the TDi is very good. However... there's more than a few, and I'm one of them, that has theirs out again. It's not a pleasant conversion, and for me there's little point if the driving experience is pretty poor. You'll never get noise to reasonable levels, and to 'go' you'll be box-stirring. Yes,  it's cheap, fairly simple to do, and it will 'go' well. The 200TDi has been the herd-choice. Be minded to how those that tell you to fit a TDi, truly use the things. I actually drive mine. Just know what you're getting....

If it's cheap you want, and you're not intending to go far, fine,  may as well throw in a V8. These conversions all appear clever, save a sixer and a V6, I've had them all. Truth is, there is no perfect solution, all are hit by compromises. If your wallet is a little thicker, or like me you got yours before prices went silly, my moniker would give you my choice because it's closer to perfect for my particular use.

And lastly.... careful, none of these conversions are as cheap as they first look,.

Go in eyes-open.

Edited July 7, 2020 by Landrover17H

[murphyclan]

3 hours ago, Landrover17H said:

I'm with Drumstick on this, if it's cheap power you want, and if it's a  weekender toy, the TDi is very good. However... there's more than a few, and I'm one of them, that has theirs out again. It's not a pleasant conversion, and for me there's little point if the driving experience is pretty poor. You'll never get noise to reasonable levels, and to 'go' you'll be box-stirring. Yes,  it's cheap, fairly simple to do, and it will 'go' well. The 200TDi has been the herd-choice. Be minded to how those that tell you to fit a TDi, truly use the things. I actually drive mine. Just know what you're getting....

If it's cheap you want, and you're not intending to go far, fine,  may as well throw in a V8. These conversions all appear clever, save a sixer and a V6, I've had them all. Truth is, there is no perfect solution, all are hit by compromises. If your wallet is a little thicker, or like me you got yours before prices went silly, my moniker would give you my choice because it's closer to perfect for my particular use.

And lastly.... careful, none of these conversions are as cheap as they first look,.

Go in eyes-open.

To be honest i would love to put her back to original spec which was 2.6 straight 6 but as you know these engines are quite hard to get hold of, it has a 2 1/4 fitted just now so there not the greatest for economy or power the disco I have bought only cost £200 but the engine will need a strip down and rebuild and the turbo reconditioned. I know noise will be an issue but we can live with that we had a tranny engine in our last series and no sound deadening we just learned to shout a bit louder.

[murphyclan]

6 hours ago, Snagger said:

I think you will have problems with the turbo, as Gary said.  It fits with some tinkering on 88s, but the deeper chassis of a 109 fouls.  I had exactly that issue fitting a Discovery 200Tdi to my 109.  The two simple ways around it are to fit either Defender manifolds and turbo or 300Tdi manifolds and turbo.

PAS is a wonderful addition, and does save a lot of messing about with the front pulleys and alternator mountings, but will make routing air hoses for the 200 Defender manifolds a headache, so 300 manifolds and air ducting would be an easier fit with the 200 Discovery ancillaries.

I might consider it as the person who I got the Disco from has a P38 their wanting to get rid of, as mines was originally a straight 6 and the engine is further back I might get away with it.

 

[Gazzar]

39 minutes ago, murphyclan said:

I might consider it as the person who I got the Disco from has a P38 their wanting to get rid of, as mines was originally a straight 6 and the engine is further back I might get away with it.

 

I think you could, I'd try it before doing anything else. If the gearbox is in the six cylinder position and you use a 4 cylinder bell housing, it might work. 

I think you'll have to work to get the exhaust to fit, but that's just fabrication.

[murphyclan]

44 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

I think you could, I'd try it before doing anything else. If the gearbox is in the six cylinder position and you use a 4 cylinder bell housing, it might work. 

I think you'll have to work to get the exhaust to fit, but that's just fabrication.

Thanks i will do the 6 is long gone and someone has fitted a 2 1/4 so the bellhousing is there its just if the engine mounts will need changed.

[Gazzar]

The 2286 is the same block as the TDI 200. You can swap the mounts over.

[murphyclan]

47 minutes ago, Gazzar said:

The 2286 is the same block as the TDI 200. You can swap the mounts over.

I will whip them off the disco chassis tonight and I was thinking of keeping LT77 and maybe converting to 5 speed with the ashcroft conversion as it would be cheaper than getting an OD

[Gazzar]

Ah, in that case you'll need a new turbo. The lt77 is longer, pushing the engine forward, as the disco version is a LOT longer. Plus the gear levers may have to be moved around if they're going to be in the series position.

New prop shafts and scallops to crossmembers may also be required, if you switch to LT230.

[Chicken Drumstick]

34 minutes ago, murphyclan said:

I will whip them off the disco chassis tonight and I was thinking of keeping LT77 and maybe converting to 5 speed with the ashcroft conversion as it would be cheaper than getting an OD

I wouldn't bank on it being cheaper than an OD.

You'll have to decide where to mount the gearbox, as it'll alter the engines position, i.e. you won't be able to keep the box and engine in the Standard Series locations. It'll be one or the other, or neither.

There may be some interior trim to consider for the levers. Custom or different Props and a decision on if you want a 2wd conversion on the LT-230, so as to match a normal Series on road.

I know you have the Tdi, but I'd seriously consider another engine if you are planning this amount of work. Having done a Tdi conversion, I wouldn't do another. In fact I'm looking at maybe swapping my current Tdi engine to something else in my 88 coiler. The Tdi is just unrefined and noisy and gets on your wick after a while.

[Gazzar]

I like my TDI, but it's been worked on. Loads of torque, cheap to run, and the noise isn't too bad once you've loaded up with sound proofing.

[Snagger]

The other thing that helps a 200Tdi is using the engine mounting rubbers from Charlie Emberton  on eBay (Charlie CCU, I think he goes by on there) or, much more expensive but softer still, Glencoyne Engineering.

[Anderzander]

1 hour ago, Snagger said:

The other thing that helps a 200Tdi is using the engine mounting rubbers from Charlie Emberton  on eBay (Charlie CCU, I think he goes by on there) or, much more expensive but softer still, Glencoyne Engineering.

Couldn’t agree more. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

2 hours ago, Snagger said:

The other thing that helps a 200Tdi is using the engine mounting rubbers from Charlie Emberton  on eBay (Charlie CCU, I think he goes by on there) or, much more expensive but softer still, Glencoyne Engineering.

They are an improvement. But a bit like saying being hit with a cricket bat isn’t as bad as a baseball bat, kind of thing. 
 

Even in a 90 the Tdi’s are loud and unrefined. The 2.5 TD is much nicer in this respect. Although it is the only thing the 19J is better at. 
 

I’m not anti Tdi’s. if you have one in already in a vehicle. They are good power plants and I love the power delivery when tuned. But I’d personally not swap in another. I’d do something else. 

[Gazzar]

Agreed. Doing exactly that. 17H 2495 cc petrol EFI.

[Anderzander]

I’m biased because I find a good diesel tick over to be one of the most reassuring sounds going 😇

[Gazzar]

When I had the petrol engine in the LWB it was SO quiet on tick over you had to listen to hear it. The TDI would stir paint, until I fitted the Glencoyne mounts.

I wonder which will be most fun to drive? 2.5 petrol or 2.5 diesel, same block