Landrover17H Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Long-game it's my understanding that veg-oil for fuel over food-use is frowned-upon too? Cells are never going to be cheap, as it stands the Chinese hold the greatest deposits of the minerals required, and as demand for these ever increases, how that indicates too much in price-reduction I'm not sure. It's not like computers that get twice as fast for half the price, or is it? These are minerals in short supply. There will those that convert classics to electric, will it be the same crowd that went to mass-Tdi 10 years back? Somehow I doubt it, but I'd like to be wrong. Edited July 9, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Snagger said: You say scuppered without any backing information at all. Why is vegoil no longer possible, and why do you believe that retrofitting electric drive will never be viable? People are getting old Nissan Leafs for £5-6k, and transferring in all the bits they need to have a decent electric vehicle with little more expense than making up mountings, coupling and adaptor plate. I don’t have the electronic savvy to do that, but there are several on this forum who do, and kits are already coming out to enable owners to replicate this without the electronic skills. All those Nissans need new £5k batteries though for the most part, unless you only want a 16-20 mile. Plus I suspect a great many cars converted to EV in this manner would require an IVA and loose their identity anyhow, at least according to the regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) Agreed CD. Every sink-estate had a chequer-plate spattered TDi conversion 10-15 years back. It was 'clever'. Can we see today's equivalent of the 'One Life...' crowd of old, finding £5K with the same zeal? Only to replace them for another £5K, five years later? Really? Now, a heap more "Crocodile-Dundee' shonk from Billing - all day long. £5K of cells?... nah. Edited July 9, 2020 by Landrover17H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I’m not sure your target demographic of ‘checker-plate lovers from sink estates’ is the right one for those who want to maintain the use of classic vehicles. You seem to have made up your mind about the whole thing though: Diesel is dead, electric has no future, Veg oil will only be sold for cooking, and petrol is the way forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Back to the actual subject ..... So to sum up .......the Tdi should fit ok and work fine for your 109 , maybe manifold issues to overcome but nothing too dramatic. Engine mount rubbers make a big difference but are easy to swap out if a set doesn't work for you Do let us know how you get on , the extra space with the 6cyl position will make it a bit different to most . Most of all enjoy the process cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 To add to that - a 300tdi turbo and manifold fits and lifts everything away from the chassis rail. The exhaust pipe sits a little closer to the engine mount, but that’s easily resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said: All those Nissans need new £5k batteries though for the most part, unless you only want a 16-20 mile. Plus I suspect a great many cars converted to EV in this manner would require an IVA and loose their identity anyhow, at least according to the regs. That’s not true at all. The range isn’t great on those old, smaller and degraded batteries, but new battery prices are falling fast and the availability of used EVs as donors is increasing, making them cheaper all the time. It’s still expensive now, but it’ll be a very practical option quite soon for those not needing to drive hundreds of miles every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Landrover17H said: Long-game it's my understanding that veg-oil for fuel over food-use is frowned-upon too? Cells are never going to be cheap, as it stands the Chinese hold the greatest deposits of the minerals required, and as demand for these ever increases, how that indicates too much in price-reduction I'm not sure. It's not like computers that get twice as fast for half the price, or is it? These are minerals in short supply. There will those that convert classics to electric, will it be the same crowd that went to mass-Tdi 10 years back? Somehow I doubt it, but I'd like to be wrong. Vegoil can be used second hand, as long as it is filtered carefully first. That recycling saves money for the driver and the source, and avoids the need to produce vastly more virgin oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0927796X18301955 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 You've not read that or paid USD31.00, can you post your copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Landrover17H said: You've not read that or paid USD31.00, can you post your copy. Abstract The increasing global demand for energy and the potential environmental impact of increased energy consumption require greener, safer, and more cost-efficient energy storage technologies. Lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) have been successful in meeting much of today’s energy storage demand; however, lithium (Li) is a costly metal, is unevenly distributed around the world, and poses serious safety and environmental concerns. Alternate battery technologies should thus be developed. Zinc-ion batteries (ZIBs) have recently attracted attention due to their safety, environmental friendliness, and lower cost, compared to LIBs. They use aqueous electrolytes, which give them an advantage over multivalent ion batteries (e.g., Mg2+, Ca2+, Al3+) that require more complex electrolytes. However, as with every new technology, many fundamental and practical challenges must be overcome for ZIBs to become commercial products. In this manuscript, we present a timely review and offer perspectives on recent developments and future directions in ZIBs research. The review is divided into five parts: (i) cathode material development, including an understanding of their reaction mechanism; (ii) electrolyte development and characterization; (iii) zinc anode, current collector, and separator design; (iv) applications; and (v) outlook and perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Landrover17H said: You've not read that or paid USD31.00, can you post your copy. I accessed it from work - so no issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrover17H Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 If common-sense was common. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Not sure there’s enough common context for that to make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Zinc is everywhere. Lithium is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Graphiene is the future. Made in Manchester. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Okay. Maybe not today. But I can see a time when the way forward is to remove the main box and engine, whack in a big electric motor, and a chunk of 3d printed battery, to fit in the engine bay, and off you go. As you keep the transfer box, you only loose one point for the engine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, Gazzar said: Okay. Maybe not today. But I can see a time when the way forward is to remove the main box and engine, whack in a big electric motor, and a chunk of 3d printed battery, to fit in the engine bay, and off you go. As you keep the transfer box, you only loose one point for the engine. Surely you'd loose a point for the gearbox too, as it simply wouldn't be there..... so has definitely been changed. Also, you'll have to do something to retain PAS, so might loose another point there. And unless you can make it all bolt-in, you run the risk of the welding clause, i.e. any welding = IVA (as per wording on the .gov site). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Transfer box is still there, that's a gearbox. It's got gears in it and all! The series hasn't got PAS, so no problem. No need to weld if you can fabricate an engine mount that picks up on the existing engine mounts. So, no, no problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 34 minutes ago, Gazzar said: Transfer box is still there, that's a gearbox. It's got gears in it and all! The series hasn't got PAS, so no problem. No need to weld if you can fabricate an engine mount that picks up on the existing engine mounts. So, no, no problem. Yes the transfer box is there. But putting a 5 speed in place of the 4 would likely cost you the points, so surely going from 4 gears to none would be exactly the same. As for PAS, sorry, had been reading about EV Defender conversions today as well, forgot this was Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Hard to argue that removing part of a gearbox would lose points. You could use the body of the main box as an adapter casing if needs be. Anyway, 2 points won't lose the reg, nor historic status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 The jaunt one has kept the gearbox and transfer box - I think you could get to a point where you fit it straight to the bellhousing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 55 minutes ago, Anderzander said: The jaunt one has kept the gearbox and transfer box - I think you could get to a point where you fit it straight to the bellhousing. Not sure how smooth it would be to change gear on the move with an electric motor though. I can see the benefit of gearing choices however. Especially if you want to haul or drive slow off road as well as at highway speeds. I'm not convinced a single gear or direct drive is the solution. In the RC world, the 'rock crawler' models use different spec motors and gearing. Some even have 2 speed transfer boxes. The fast racing buggies and trucks use completely different KV motors and gearing. I'd imagine it isn't so different when you scale things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 They seem to be able to use the gearbox - or not! They can run it off just buttons for drive in forward or reverse - or change gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Chicken Drumstick said: Yes the transfer box is there. But putting a 5 speed in place of the 4 would likely cost you the points, so surely going from 4 gears to none would be exactly the same. As for PAS, sorry, had been reading about EV Defender conversions today as well, forgot this was Series. Electric motors are happy well over 8000rpm, so no need for fifth gear, overdrive or tall diffs, and the smoothness of electric motors means that an LT76 should cope with a motor of nominally similar output as a Tdi, (which in practice equates to about 25-30% actual increase in performance), such at the Netgain Hyper 9 or the Leaf motor. Sorry to the OP for drifting so far from the original question. Hopefully you got what you needed, but you can always ask more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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