Very creaky clutch

[Peaklander]

Putting the mounts back was a hard job. I had managed to 'double nut' one of the studs so one side could slide back but I couldn't undo the stud at the other side. So the engine had gone in with the left side stud out and the right side mount bracket off. Getting the mount back wasn't too hard but getting the stud back in was. From underneath, even with the double nuts tight, I needed to use two open end spanners as they kept turning. The construction of the bracket means that the spanners go in on an angle and it's very 'testing'.

I spent the rest of yesterday re-connecting everything. One note, make sure the exhaust downpipe is pointing upwards before you refit the engine as it is almost impossible to more it around afterwards. I tided-up a few electricals with more self-amalgamating tape and sealed one or two places with rtv.

I have just the batteries to re-connect and the A bar and spots to refit. Then I can get back to preparing for the trip which is less than three week away now.

 

[Peaklander]

On refitting the serpentine belt I had a close look at it. Normally I lean over the front and glance down and give it a quick once over. Even though it's very easy to remove it, I haven't but this time I gave it a proper inspection.

As I looked at the smooth side I saw a mark so turned it over and looked at the corresponding ribs. It was only when I squeezed that I saw the split. This is further learning for me as I get through the jobs.

 

[Peaklander]

The last job? I hope so. I pulled myself out from underneath this morning by pulling on the front prop and found that the rear UJ joint was slightly loose at the flange. I only recently removed them and greased the UJs - about 560 miles ago in fact.

So I removed it and there was indeed a slight movement in the flange. I carry a spare so confidently removed it and replaced. The fixed half was fine but the first bearing cap to go in the flange was loose. It just tapped through, past the circlip groove. So I assume the hole has some wear. I thought there might be a flange available but couldn't verify a part number so have assumed the rest will be wearing too and am replacing. I think this prop might be the original.

I hope to go for a drive tomorrow to check the clutch, if I can stop finding other maintenance items.

 

[Peaklander]

New front prop fitted this morning and then I made a few more checks before driving just a few miles into the back roads here to change gear a few times. It all feels and sounds fine. The judder has gone and so has the creak! The clutch feels just a little heavier which I think is either the new seals in the hydraulics or a slightly different pedal position. Not sure about the latter as when I refitted the master cylinder, I set the rod to the instructions in the workshop manual.

Lessons learnt: I think the judder was the release bearing not sliding smoothly along the splines and the creak was definitely the pivot in the fork. I should have used more grease in both places when I fitted the new clutch at chassis change time in 2018. Also, removing the engine is very straightforward except the mounts. Next time (?) I will disconnect the mounting bracket at both sides (six bolts each). It would be far better doing this (on both sides) than lifting the lump up and over, for the studs to clear, whilst trying to engage the gearbox  shaft.

[Snagger]

How about removing the studs from the engine rubbers and using bolts, so when you need to move the engine forward, the rubbers have smooth bottoms?

[Peaklander]

54 minutes ago, Snagger said:

How about removing the studs from the engine rubbers and using bolts

I think that's a better idea and Mike at Brit said the same to me. However I didn't have suitable bolts and as I said in the post earlier, I couldn't remove one of the studs anyway. It's a bit of a soft excuse I know but I didn't want any dramas at this stage. With the rhs bracket removed and the stud at the lhs out and a squirt of silicone spray, it slid back easily.

Edit: but next time: yes that is the way to do it I think

Edited April 8, 2022 by Peaklander

[cackshifter]

The mystery hand on the serpentine belt looks like mine. Well spotted on the belt, that could have been a royal pain, I wonder how long it would have survived. Do you happen to know how old the belt was?

[Mo Murphy]

I have bolt on chassis mounts, doesn't half make things easier 😁

Mo

[Peaklander]

@cackshifter, I keep a spreadsheet detailing all purchases and work done, although right at the start of this ownership in 2015 I probably missed a few items, including the belt. I have been with my Dad today; he's had a pacemaker fitted in Sheffield but I almost feel I need one myself after scanning the spending on that sheet. So I can't be sure but it was probably 2015 - so it's 7 years old and around 35K miles.

I always carry a spare and even if I'm not carrying tools, I have a breaker bar and 15mm socket (as well as 27mm for the wheel nuts). So I can change the belt easily but obviously catching it before breaking is ideal.

@Mo Murphy what is the bolt spec that you've used? i think this would be a good mod, even before the next time it's needed.

[Mo Murphy]

Ordinary 8.8s. I don't know what genuine bolt on mounts cost now but mine were £6 for one side and £60 for the other. Good old Land Rover pricing according to stock levels !

That was 12 years ago. I'd hate to think what they cost now.

Mo

[Peaklander]

@Mo Murphy are you referring to the actual chassis mounts, that receive the engine rubber mount and would be bolted to the chassis rail, rather than welded? Have you a pic?

The difficult stud on the rubber mount has nut #7 in this diagram from LR Workshop (here)

[Retroanaconda]

I suspect Mo is talking about the gearbox mounts, which bolt to the chassis on 200Tdi and earlier vehicles. They are part of the crossmember on 300Tdi and are welded to the chassis on Td5 & later.

The engine mounts are welded to the chassis on all models as far as I’m aware. 

[Anderzander]

Well done on getting it all done ! 

[Peaklander]

Thanks @Anderzander. I have made another short journey today. No creak, no judder going forward, just a slight one reversing up the drive. Not sure why. The change though is that the pedal is definitely harder. This can only be caused by the resealing of the master and slave. Maybe it will ease a bit - I hope so. I have never thought of it as heavy until now.

This is my spring, I think it's the standard pedal return and not the solution providing a light foot. Perhaps I should investigate the better spring.

[Anderzander]

That looks like the light spring to me ? 

[western]

Same pedal as I had fitted back in mid 1994, that spring assist the return of the pedal IIRC. 

[Peaklander]

Hmm not sure. This is off the LOF site. It looks very similar to mine.

Claim is 80% lighter than no spring and 45% lighter than the spring fitted to Pumas 

[Retroanaconda]

That’s the standard 300Tdi spring, which is much lighter than the other type fitted to earlier and later vehicles. The green one is an aftermarket version designed to be lighter still. 

[Peaklander]

Ok ta. I wonder if the standard spring providing the pedal return is just too strong. It doesn’t need to be so and thus the green one looks lighter and is, when in operation.

Edit although that wouldn’t explain the 80% lighter than no spring. What makes the pedal so hard if there’s no spring to return it?

Edited April 11, 2022 by Peaklander

[western]

The old clutch pedal had a long coil spring LR part 569701 on my original pedal. 

https://www.lrdirect.com/569701-pedal-return-spring

The feel can only be down to the pivot points & force required & the distance between them. 

[Peaklander]

Nothing has changed in that regard Ralph. If anything, the pivots are better lubricated. There’s five new rubber bits. The seal and cover on the slave and master plus the extra smaller seal in the master.

I was surprised at just how tight the covers are, the pushrods are restricted, even with some red grease. Maybe it will all ‘settle down’ with use. 

[western]

Once it's bedded in reckon it will be fine, got the same pedal assembly & it's much nicer to use in traffic than the original. 

[Anderzander]

I think James is right - it looks like the aftermarket one is made to be light still. I have to say though, I fitted the LR part to mine to replace the earlier type and it’s very light now.

10 hours ago, Peaklander said:

although that wouldn’t explain the 80% lighter than no spring. What makes the pedal so hard if there’s no spring to return it?

I think they are called an over-centre spring - for the first part of its travel the spring holds the pedal up as you’d expect - but then at a certain point in its travel it helps pull the pedal down.  
 

You can feel it on mine where it is as if the pedal gives way as you push it down. Which I guess would be the 80” figure?