300tdi Auto Conversion

[Singr07]

Hi I have bought a defender 90 couple of years ago and had no technical knowledge about Landy’s. Apparently it has a 300tdi conversion bolted with LT77 gearbox. 

Engine is mounted closer to Bulkhead unlike 300tdi’s location. May be due to old type of chassis it has. Chassis itself looks very solid without any weldings on it. But underneath rear crossmember is rusty. Otherwise engine starts like a petrol car and drives well and no issue with gearbox.

It has been re sprayed and recently bulkhead has been galvanised too. I have spent too much money on it and done the things wrong way around.

I wish to have an automatic gearbox on it, please advise if automatic gearbox with 300tdi works better or worse in comparison to Manual gearbox? Is it worth spending that sort of money?

What would be the cost effective way 
Option 1 - just get the automatic gearbox fitted to its existing chassis, move the engine forward and have a new rear crossmember or
Option 2 - A new chassis with automatic

any idea how how much it would cost and where to get it done from?
Thanks  
 

[Arjan]

Without seeing the vehicle / bulkhead / engine bay..

- LT77 keeps engine (normally a 200 Tdi) closer to the bulkhead - thus the big plastic cowl on them between radiator en fan

- R380 is usu. mated to a 300 Tdi and has a longer bell housing and the engine mounts are moved back on the engine block

Drive a 300 Tdi Disco and get an idea how it sort of could feel.

I had a 110 CSW with a ZF but it was mated to a Mazda and one of the best vehicles i've ever driven..

You mention you recently had the bulkhead galvanized ? That would have been a good moment to have done this gearbox conversion.

Money ?

Ask different specialists for a quote.

 

[mad_pete]

I had a 300 tdi auto rangie classic I found it okay for speed. 

[Litch]

I converted my 300TDi 90 to auto a few years ago using an Ashcroft kit, am really pleased with the result and very pleased I did it. With the 300TDi mounted in the "correct" location and an existing R380 it is just a nut & bolt job, with a conversion such as yours I couldn't comment but nothing is insurmountable.

Mine wasn't always a 300TDi, it started off as a 2.5NA D but back in 2004 I had a brand-new LRGP re-power kit fitted which means that to all intents and purposes it is as per factory spec. Indeed I fitted a new chassis 2-years ago and just ordered a 300TDi spec one and everything just lines straight up using factory parts.

I would recommend trying to have a drive in an auto 90, they are not to everyones taste but I love it.  😁  Some people say they don't pull the skin off a rice pud but if you are starting with a worn-out engine in the first place, carrying around half a workshop in the back and running oversized tyres then it is never going to be a ball of fire. Mine however is very brisk (yes, I do mean that) and after I had sorted the gearing out (change of transfer-box) it is perfectly suited to both urban work, back lane dashes and M-way cruising. Off-road it is great fun, just select, point and go! 😆

It isn't just fitting the gearbox, there is also the oil-cooler to be considered (I used stock Disco pipes but adapted to connect into the cooler), oil filler tube (standard one does the trick with some gentle bending), shifter (I used the Ashcroft console) and then of course the wiring (inhibit switch to stop the engine starting unless it is in N) as well as a whole host of other niggling issues. Add to that the fact that the kit comes with no instructions whatsoever it was a real leaning curve! 🥴

[cackshifter]

Slightly OT but I noticed Vera (ITV  detective) has an auto one. 

[SPendrey]

28 minutes ago, cackshifter said:

Slightly OT but I noticed Vera (ITV  detective) has an auto one. 

Yes, I read somewhere she isn't licensed for a manual, and yet she seems to change gears (and the audio changes too) in the programme!

[cackshifter]

1 hour ago, SPendrey said:

Yes, I read somewhere she isn't licensed for a manual, and yet she seems to change gears (and the audio changes too) in the programme!

One of the episodes (don't ask which) you get a glimpse of the shifter and console; my wife and I both remarked on it simultaneously (sad)

[Chicken Drumstick]

On 4/10/2022 at 6:17 PM, Singr07 said:

Hi I have bought a defender 90 couple of years ago and had no technical knowledge about Landy’s. Apparently it has a 300tdi conversion bolted with LT77 gearbox. 

Engine is mounted closer to Bulkhead unlike 300tdi’s location. May be due to old type of chassis it has. Chassis itself looks very solid without any weldings on it. But underneath rear crossmember is rusty. Otherwise engine starts like a petrol car and drives well and no issue with gearbox.

It has been re sprayed and recently bulkhead has been galvanised too. I have spent too much money on it and done the things wrong way around.

I wish to have an automatic gearbox on it, please advise if automatic gearbox with 300tdi works better or worse in comparison to Manual gearbox? Is it worth spending that sort of money?

What would be the cost effective way 
Option 1 - just get the automatic gearbox fitted to its existing chassis, move the engine forward and have a new rear crossmember or
Option 2 - A new chassis with automatic

any idea how how much it would cost and where to get it done from?
Thanks  
 

This all depends what you want. While I know there people who are happy with auto Tdi's. Some facts are, the torque convertor will sap power and you will have only 4 gears. So performance will as a rule suffer (and they aren't speedy to start with). MPG will also likely drop.

Also most 300Tdi conversion will be to an old school auto box, which means limited or no programming. Lazy kickdown and probably unable to lock the torque converter up for cruising or when off road to get engine braking.

On the flip side, they will and do work.

[Singr07]

Hi I am looking for an Automatic conversion for my Defender 90. Previous owner had done 300tdi engine conversion only and it is bolted to LT77 gearbox on its existing chassis.

There are few cheep 4HP22 automatic gearbox  on sale at Flee Bay but not sure if that would be a good idea.
 

Not sure if these gearboxes will be any good or not. Labour cost is getting very expensive and I don’t want to pay the labour for keep fitting in and out of any faulty gearbox. 
 

help please 

[Singr07]

Hi so what would be the best option for Automatic transmission with any other Engine?

[Mo Murphy]

 

[Chicken Drumstick]

1 hour ago, Singr07 said:

Hi so what would be the best option for Automatic transmission with any other Engine?

Something more modern really. I.e. electronically controlled and know the throttle position. I'm not saying the old setups aren't good. Plenty of production vehicles from years back are like it. But autos have come a long way really.

A nice RV8 with a ZF HP24 or similar would work well. Or maybe the entire Td5 + auto setup from a D2. Suspect an M57 (3.0 BMW diesel from an L322 RR) and the 5 speed they use would probably be made to work too or the HP24. Or if you want to go full out the gearbox from a D3/4/RRS using the ZF 6 or 8 speeds with the DD295 transfer box. Land Rover essentially used this setup on the 70th Anni model of the Defender.

All of these are likely bigger more expensive builds though. And potentially more complex with electronics. Td5/RV8 would be the cheapest of the above options.

[western]

Threads merged into this topic. 

[Snagger]

I’d say stick with an LR combination like the 300 and auto above - it’ll make servicing and repair easier at LR specialists and should be a lot less hassle to get an engineer’s report for the DVLA and insurance for than something more exotic.

Drumstick is right in as much as technology has moved on and modern automatics are “better”, but their improvement is in having more gears and electronics to allow an engine to be in its peak rev range more of the time.  They still take a couple of seconds to react to kick down for hard acceleration, the torque converter still creates a lot of lag and the combination still means that flooring the accelerator results in a lot of fuel being converted to noise and little else.  In that respect, modern automatics are little better than those from 30 years ago.

Almost all cars in the Middle East are automatic, and mine is among them.  Underwhelming is a severe understatement.  There is a reason that American drivers like to convert cars to manual.

[Singr07]

Hi thanks for your valuable information. I have upgraded my Defender 300tdi to a later style TD clutch pedal with original Land Rover spring and new LOF masters cylinder. Clutch is 60-70% lighter now. I think automatic conversion is a very expensive option. TerrainTech are asking around 5k for the complete 300tdi conversion. I also tried few other garages and they all referring to Ashcroft 3.5k for gearbox and other bits without any labour charges. I don’t think it’s a good idea to spend that much money for a lagging conversion.  

[Snagger]

It all depends on what you want - there is no right or wrong; it’s personal need and choice.  For those with leg or arm issues, where gear changes can be difficult or painful, then it’s a great option.  For those who live in cities with lots of junctions on steep hills (like the US west coast), it would be markedly easier to drive.  For the fully able bodied in Europe, it’s probably less useful.  I was considering a ZF behind the Tdi in my 109, even sourcing a complete unit with all the ancillaries, partly to eliminate the relatively fragile SIII box, but the disadvantages outweighed the advantages.

As long as you understand the pros and cons, only you can make the appropriate decision for your use.  But I’d think carefully about fuel consumption, with prices as they are and only likely to worsen.

[Singr07]

I strongly agree Automatic’s are easier to drive and avoid any trouble for arm and leg. Any idea if used 4HP 22 are any good? Or is it just a gamble. I wonder why people don’t sell engine or gearbox while operational and fitting into the vehicles. It would be much easier to notice any malfunctions. It would be good if someone can do the conversion for me on a reasonable cost. Don’t know if that’s feasible 😂

[Mo Murphy]

If you want to fit a used gearbox it's always going to be a gamble. You could buy the nearest cheapest one and put it straight into Ashcrofts for an exchange reconditioned box then fit it yourself. It's what I'd do and won't cost you 5.5k. An exchange box from Ashcroft is £675.

Trouble is that I think you are on a tight budget but you have to spend big budget money to drive in with your manual and out with an auto and get a decent warranted job.

HTH

Mo

[muddy]

The easiest thing would probably be to buy a cheapish 300 TDi automatic discovery with a couple of months MOT and see how you like it. If you do like it you have a suitable doner engine and gearbox (even axles) that you could build up on to a new galvanised chassis whilst still being able to use your current vehicle. If you don't like it you can sell/scrap it.

Be aware that most 300 TDi automatics use a semi electronic fuel injection pump and fourth injector however these can easily be swapped for standard mechanical ones.

I have driven a 200 auto discovery, and the mrs had a 300 auto discovery and currently a TD5 auto discovery, I put slightly taller tyres on them all and that seemed to give them a decent take up speed and they would cruise happily at 70+ (the TD5 is happiest at around 85) however they might be fine empty but I find them hateful with a trailer on they can never find the right gear and they just don't have the power to hold the torque converter in lockup. A friend has a mapped TD5 auto and that goes very well but its got a larger torque converter and heavy duty gearbox ( second one after he killed the first) I think there's over 2k there before labour costs and it averages 17mpg.

 

If you don't tow much and don't need and auto I would look at the LOF products or even a red clutch booster and accept that changing gear with a good push is part of a defenders character and embrace it just like the lack of elbow room, constant worry of it being stolen and the dread every time you see a patch of oil on the floor.

[Singr07]

That’s a very good idea, I am going to view couple of Automatic Defender to see how they drives like. If I like the way they are then I will start building onto a galvanised chassis. My Landy already has a rear brake disc diff, probably from another Disco done by previous owner. I have fitted a LOF master cylinder and latest pedal. Clutch is about 60-70% lighter now. I absolutely love it. I don’t use it for towing and only drive it local. If I spend another £5k on it the. Would that be worth it? If I sell it after good few years?

[Singr07]

On 4/15/2022 at 5:12 PM, Mo Murphy said:

If you want to fit a used gearbox it's always going to be a gamble. You could buy the nearest cheapest one and put it straight into Ashcrofts for an exchange reconditioned box then fit it yourself. It's what I'd do and won't cost you 5.5k. An exchange box from Ashcroft is £675.

Trouble is that I think you are on a tight budget but you have to spend big budget money to drive in with your manual and out with an auto and get a decent warranted job.

HTH

Mo

I totally agree with you MO. Used gearbox can’t be trusted and it’s will cost double for switching the gearbox’s. I will keep an eye on user gearbox for Ashcroft replacement. 

[Snagger]

I think an auto conversion might reduce rather than raise the value.  More and more people are looking for original spec vehicles, wary of conversions because of the possibility of incorrect work and the difficulty in future maintenance caused by having different mechanical assemblies than the files and manuals dictate the vehicle should have.

[Singr07]

On 4/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, muddy said:

The easiest thing would probably be to buy a cheapish 300 TDi automatic discovery with a couple of months MOT and see how you like it. If you do like it you have a suitable doner engine and gearbox (even axles) that you could build up on to a new galvanised chassis whilst still being able to use your current vehicle. If you don't like it you can sell/scrap it.

Be aware that most 300 TDi automatics use a semi electronic fuel injection pump and fourth injector however these can easily be swapped for standard mechanical ones.

I have driven a 200 auto discovery, and the mrs had a 300 auto discovery and currently a TD5 auto discovery, I put slightly taller tyres on them all and that seemed to give them a decent take up speed and they would cruise happily at 70+ (the TD5 is happiest at around 85) however they might be fine empty but I find them hateful with a trailer on they can never find the right gear and they just don't have the power to hold the torque converter in lockup. A friend has a mapped TD5 auto and that goes very well but its got a larger torque converter and heavy duty gearbox ( second one after he killed the first) I think there's over 2k there before labour costs and it averages 17mpg.

 

If you don't tow much and don't need and auto I would look at the LOF products or even a red clutch booster and accept that changing gear with a good push is part of a defenders character and embrace it just like the lack of elbow room, constant worry of it being stolen and the dread every time you see a patch of oil on the floor.

Hi I have a mechanical fuel pump, how that be converted to Semi Electronic? Sorry what does Fourth injector means? Thanks 

[mad_pete]

If you are worried about price can search on eBay for completed auctions on auto defender. I think the auto defender is a rare enough beast but having changed mine to auto I would say that.  🙂