PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Trucks in the garage so I'm killing downtime. I've recently got myself a winch and I like the idea of housing the isolator in a wing top storage box. At £180 the price for the Nakatanenga version is a bit steep. I also think there are improvements to be had in terms of waterproofing and making it a custom fit for the isolator I'm thinking about using. Without the truck here I dont know how much vertical space I have for the box and I suspect the isolator I'm looking at is going to be too tall. The one I had in mind is this one thats rated for 500A continuous load: https://sterling-power.com/products/ancillary-equipment-battery-isolator-pro?variant=882689939 0 Its 150mm from the base of the studs to the top of the handle. I really like the additional keyed lockout so I dont have to fully rely on the lock on the lid. (The yellow cap on the lid is just a screw cover to add some waterproofing to the tubular lock underneath.) Like the Nakatanenga version, I made a removable base plate which includes space for a seal. The pink and purple parts are only split to make printing easier and will be permanently bonded to make one solid housing. This sits on the underside of the wing with the blue part holding the lid and sitting on top. Captive nuts in the pink part will clamp the box to the wing and the gasket in the lid along with the overhang lip should seal the box. I may include a drain in the base just incase. Any chance one of you kind folk could have a look at their wing and tell me how much vertical space I have to play with? I'm not expecting my truck back until early february unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 That looks great 👏🏻 Jealous of your CAD skills ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 39 minutes ago, Anderzander said: That looks great 👏🏻 Jealous of your CAD skills ! Thank you! Don't suppose you fancy having a little measure of the depth available inside the wing?? 😘 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Happy to - might need to be tomorrow though? Drivers side, from the top of the wing to the highest point on the inner wing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 15 minutes ago, Anderzander said: Happy to - might need to be tomorrow though? Drivers side, from the top of the wing to the highest point on the inner wing ? Preferably underside of wing to top of the highest point in the inner wing. That way I'm taking the recess in the wing for the blanking plate into consideration. Already imagining ways of making a mount for a flip up isolator but I can see that eventually damaging the cables. I had also considered extending the box forwards under the wing to make space for some Anderson plug jumper cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 This topic has grabbed my attention as I was looking at the Nakatanenga box only this morning. It certainly is spendy. I've been wondering if the pipe and tyre valve connection/gauge for an air compressor could fit there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, Peaklander said: This topic has grabbed my attention as I was looking at the Nakatanenga box only this morning. It certainly is spendy. I've been wondering if the pipe and tyre valve connection/gauge for an air compressor could fit there. I'm sure it could be expanded to fit - a lot of space in the wing. Opening isn't massive so there will be a limit on the size of the box and still being able to retrieve bits from the bottom. But I know people run airlines into the Nakatanenga box. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Forgot to say that I will have to see how well ASA holds up in the engine bay. It's very similar to ABS which a lot of car parts are made of but the filament versions will lack the modifiers that make them flame retardant for example. At least it's the opposite side from the exhaust, and wrapping in a reflective heat blanket would also help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I know @Anderzandersaid he’d measure tomorrow but as I’m in the garage, here’s mine. The minimum dimension is 100mm to the top of the fold at the inner wing - arch joint. I have a chequer plate and gasket which makes it look odd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 😀👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Peaklander said: I know @Anderzandersaid he’d measure tomorrow but as I’m in the garage, here’s mine. The minimum dimension is 100mm to the top of the fold at the inner wing - arch joint. I have a chequer plate and gasket which makes it look odd. Good man! And thanks to @Anderzander for the offer too. Back to the drawing board - let's see what I have to do to get that isolator to fit 😅 Should still be possible in a horizontal orientation. I don't want to send you out again, but a dimension at the other end of the hole would be handy too. There should be more room as the wheel arch slopes away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Houston - I've made a boo boo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 OK so its workable, I think with two right angled lugs crimped to the ends of the wires, it fits with a 15deg tilt and still allows the lid to close in the on and off position. Its easy enough to design in mounting flanges but I'm going to struggle to fit the anderson connector for jump leads as well as the warning light to show the circuit is live in low light conditions. The alternative is a different isolator but I cant find any other ones in this turn handle style suitably rated. Most I've seen are 300A or less. I'm sure this will work fine for quite a while but its not ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 4, 2023 Author Share Posted January 4, 2023 Had to ditch the clunky isolator which might be a good thing. Have since found almost identical looking versions with much lower ratings online. Went instead with a durite 500A continuous isolator: https://www.durite.co.uk/WebResources/Common/Docs/Technical Information/601-700/0-605-80-LEAF1.pdf Fits although I needed to rotate it a bit. Still has lockout via padlock. Not quite as clean as an integral lock but still nice to have. Space for an Anderson SB175 connector for jump leads and managed to sneak a warning light in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePointFive Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 I really like what you're doing with this. Would you be doing a run of these or just the one? I suppose there's no need to do a batch on a 3D printer. I'd be interested if you did (price dependent), having a secure store on the wing might be convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 Can you not mount the isolator external to the box and just have the handle poking through? Personally though I'd consider whether that location is the most suitable for the isolator switch? I'd keep the isolator nice and close to the battery to keep cable runs short, leave that space for stuff that you want to access more regularly / from outside the vehicle such as air lines and jump points. At least that's how I'd consider doing it (did actually build everything for it but didn't find a way of doing the lid I liked with what I had to hand). Incidentally I just bent and welded some thin steel in probably the time it took to draw the model. Just make a base template and draw verticals up from there and welded the edges together. Think I just used a clamp and a piece of metal to bend it at the time as I didn't have my bender. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 43 minutes ago, ThreePointFive said: I really like what you're doing with this. Would you be doing a run of these or just the one? I suppose there's no need to do a batch on a 3D printer. I'd be interested if you did (price dependent), having a secure store on the wing might be convenient. I think it's going to depend on the amount of material the print will take up and I'll have to run it for a while to confirm engine bay temps won't be an issue. Printing temp for ASA is 245C but it would become malleable below that. If it isn't financially viable then I'll probably just release the print files to people who are interested. I would say out of all my projects it would work best as a product given that it's a drop in fit with very basic assembly required. Will have to see how testing goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: Can you not mount the isolator external to the box and just have the handle poking through? Personally though I'd consider whether that location is the most suitable for the isolator switch? I'd keep the isolator nice and close to the battery to keep cable runs short, leave that space for stuff that you want to access more regularly / from outside the vehicle such as air lines and jump points. At least that's how I'd consider doing it (did actually build everything for it but didn't find a way of doing the lid I liked with what I had to hand). Incidentally I just bent and welded some thin steel in probably the time it took to draw the model. Just make a base template and draw verticals up from there and welded the edges together. Think I just used a clamp and a piece of metal to bend it at the time as I didn't have my bender. My welding and sheet metal work are definitely in their infancy and I currently lack a workshop. I'm currently fixing a hot pressure washer in the kitchen - any more projects in there and I'll be in trouble with she who must be obeyed 😅. Filament and a 3D printer I do have though and it lets me prototype the problem and find the potential conflicts. A lot faster to replicate if this became something I wanted to sell too. Modifying individual parts is easier too but in terms of waterproofing it's definitely easier to design it like that from the beginning - for my skillset anyway. ASA won't corrode, is easily repairable and the entire enclosure is non conductive. I would personally prefer the isolator to be housed in the box to protect the switch. In terms of location, you're right. Isolators should ideally be placed as close to the battery as possible. But I think there is a very low chance of a short between the wing box and the battery box. I'll be protecting the cables too of course as well as adding a mega fuse in the battery box. Lots of ways to skin this cat. I've seen people put their isolators next to the winch for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, PolarBlair said: In terms of location, you're right. Isolators should ideally be placed as close to the battery as possible. But I think there is a very low chance of a short between the wing box and the battery box. I'll be protecting the cables too of course as well as adding a mega fuse in the battery box. I wasn't so much thinking of cabling being an issue but rather all that extra wiring for (to me) very little benefit since you not only have to go from the battery box to the switch but back again unless you reroute all the existing wiring in the vehicle. All that adds voltage drop unless you add stupid sized cables to mitigate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 56 minutes ago, Ed Poore said: I wasn't so much thinking of cabling being an issue but rather all that extra wiring for (to me) very little benefit since you not only have to go from the battery box to the switch but back again unless you reroute all the existing wiring in the vehicle. All that adds voltage drop unless you add stupid sized cables to mitigate it. Can you explain? I'm new to winches and their wiring. On Winchmax winches, my understanding was the live wire goes from the battery to the winch solenoid and in my case with the isolator in line to prevent operation of the winch by vandals. Why does the cable need to go back to the battery box? I'm hardly adding any additional length to the cable at all. Plan is also to use 50mm² cable. For now I'm intending on relying on the wireless winch control instead of running dedicated switches to the solinoid. For fixed switched operation from inside the cab aren't we talking about completely separate wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 minute ago, PolarBlair said: Can you explain? I'm new to winches and their wiring. On Winchmax winches, my understanding was the live wire goes from the battery to the winch solenoid and in my case with the isolator in line to prevent operation of the winch by vandals. Why does the cable need to go back to the battery box? I'm hardly adding any additional length to the cable at all. Plan is also to use 50mm² cable. For now I'm intending on relying on the wireless winch control instead of running dedicated switches to the solinoid. For fixed switched operation from inside the cab aren't we talking about completely separate wires? You have your main power lead to the winch, the earth for the winch can connect close to the winch it does not need to go back to battery box, I can operate my winch remotely but can also operate with fixed switches from within the cab, the wiring for these switches will need to go back to the winch solenoid to achieve operation regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolarBlair Posted January 5, 2023 Author Share Posted January 5, 2023 56 minutes ago, Stellaghost said: You have your main power lead to the winch, the earth for the winch can connect close to the winch it does not need to go back to battery box, I can operate my winch remotely but can also operate with fixed switches from within the cab, the wiring for these switches will need to go back to the winch solenoid to achieve operation regards Stephen I get that, what I was asking is why an inline isolator increases the live feed cable length or why Ed was suggesting I would need to go from the battery box, to the isolator in the wing and back? Unless I'm getting the wrong end of the stick. As far as I was aware, people using the Nakatanenga wing box to house an isolator is a fairly common use case. As you say, the fixed switch wiring inside the cab is a separate matter and optional anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 There's two reasons to put an isolator in: - To stop nefarious or accidental use - To stop your truck from burning to the ground by shorting the feed wire to the chassis The second reason is why you would normally put the isolator right next to the battery -for this reason alone putting it in the wing is not ideal as you have a fat wire that you can't isolate should the worst happen. Not saying your idea is rubbish! Honest! But it doesn't do half of what an isolator is designed to, if you can live with that then fine. The other way is to have an isolating solenoid in the battery box, that is fed by a switch in the cab, probably from ignition live, so you can only use the winch with a key in the ignition, and the switch in a certain place. You can have the wing top isolator as well, but little use for it at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Bowie69 said: The other way is to have an isolating solenoid in the battery box, that is fed by a switch in the cab, probably from ignition live, so you can only use the winch with a key in the ignition, This is exactly how I did it. Put a solenoid right next to the battery to minimise cable that cannot be isolated. I have a switch on the dash that feeds this solenoid to turn it on which then enables the in cab, on the winch , and remote operation switches to all become live Having said that I do really like the idea of the box for other things though! Anderson connector and air outlet for on board air are both great examples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, PolarBlair said: Can you explain? I'm new to winches and their wiring. On Winchmax winches, my understanding was the live wire goes from the battery to the winch solenoid and in my case with the isolator in line to prevent operation of the winch by vandals. Why does the cable need to go back to the battery box? I'm hardly adding any additional length to the cable at all. Plan is also to use 50mm² cable. For now I'm intending on relying on the wireless winch control instead of running dedicated switches to the solinoid. For fixed switched operation from inside the cab aren't we talking about completely separate wires? Ah sorry I thought you were on about isolating the battery rather than just the winch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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