P38 winch bumper build

[Bowie69]

TBH, for 7S, would it be the worst thing to happen if you had no freespool?

[elbekko]

42 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

Why do you need them to go around 180°? What I was thinking was to machine up an outer sheath that sits over your pulley (in the diagram above) so guide the cable as you have done. That's presumably going to just be a lump of aluminium or something with a hole drilled in the centre of it so that it can fit.

Maybe this illustrates the idea - Bowden cable enters the right hand side hole on the vertical face (and can be suitably fixed somewhere near there), gets wrapped around the internal pulley and fixed on the left hand side where you can see a "dowel" hole going through vertically.

Would work best I think if the bowden cable is a tightish fit within the groove on the pulley so there's no room for it to wander off course.

180° because that's how far the lever needs to turn to operate the ring gear.

That's a nice design, should definitely work (if you can keep the crud out of it)! Looks like a job for a 3D print. If only I got along with mine...

4 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

TBH, for 7S, would it be the worst thing to happen if you had no freespool?

Probably not, no. And worst case I can operate it by reaching into the back of the bumper (will be harder once the skid plate is on). But preferably not...

[bishbosh]

I'd chop all the top plate away from the right hand side of the freespool hole to the left hand end of the drum when looking at the car from the front. Perhaps leave a 20mm "lip" along the front to stiffen the vertical face of the bumper.

[elbekko]

34 minutes ago, bishbosh said:

I'd chop all the top plate away from the right hand side of the freespool hole to the left hand end of the drum when looking at the car from the front. Perhaps leave a 20mm "lip" along the front to stiffen the vertical face of the bumper.

Maybe, but that would take a lot of strength away in the line between the winch bolt holes and the chassis bolt holes. So I'd prefer not to.

[Ed Poore]

1 hour ago, elbekko said:

That's a nice design, should definitely work (if you can keep the crud out of it)! Looks like a job for a 3D print. If only I got along with mine...

No reason why it can't remain completely sealed (within reason because there are a couple of moving parts.

This mock-up was in three parts - the pulley bit to connect to your gear (obviously needs to be adapted to suit your setup). You could take a leaf out of the old school throttle cables and just use a bolt with a hole drilled in it. Feed the cable through the hole and tighten up in the pulley so that it pinches the cable against the sides. That means you get some adjustment in the end and you've got more or less 180° of the pulley left to hide any excess if you want.

Then your bottom half which houses the pulley completely but also provides an entry point for the cable - depending on what you can find cable wise I'd expect you could tap this entry to the appropriate thread and thus effectively seal the cable from dirt getting in this end.

The third part I'm sure you can imagine is just a plate that sits over the top to seal everything up - go fancy and have an O-ring or just put some sealant around it before bolting down.

If you wanted to be really fancy (and depending on what you do with the freespool lever shaft) you can have a seat for a seal on the shaft - then fill the whole thing with oil. As long as the other end of the bowden cable is sealed up (the bit you pull on to engage / disengage) then you keep the insides nicely lubed up all the time.

[edit]I'd say it's far simpler to machine this on a lathe if you have access to one. There's no reason why you really need the flat face - the only "difficult" bit would be drilling the entry port for the cable. I think the only addition you need is some method of fixing the housing to the winch body so that it doesn't rotate.

[elbekko]

Yeah, that looks like it'd work perfectly.

8 minutes ago, Ed Poore said:

[edit]I'd say it's far simpler to machine this on a lathe if you have access to one. There's no reason why you really need the flat face - the only "difficult" bit would be drilling the entry port for the cable. I think the only addition you need is some method of fixing the housing to the winch body so that it doesn't rotate.

Agreed, but:

[elbekko]

5 hours ago, bishbosh said:

I'd chop all the top plate away from the right hand side of the freespool hole to the left hand end of the drum when looking at the car from the front. Perhaps leave a 20mm "lip" along the front to stiffen the vertical face of the bumper.

Revisited this while staring at it together with my resident engineer.

Looks like it should indeed be possible to cut out the top plate at an angle from the winch mounting feet to the chassis plate. And then the freespool lever only needs a small notch to be able to sit where it sits now.

Plan coming together

And now, in the name of scope creep, see if I can get the damn welder to behave...

[Wytze]

21 minutes ago, elbekko said:

Revisited this while staring at it together with my resident engineer.

Looks like it should indeed be possible to cut out the top plate at an angle from the winch mounting feet to the chassis plate. And then the freespool lever only needs a small notch to be able to sit where it sits now.

Plan coming together

And now, in the name of scope creep, see if I can get the damn welder to behave...

Is the wire sticking?   Sometimes it help's to blow through the transport cable with compressed air..  Often there is dust in there after standing a while

[elbekko]

32 minutes ago, Wytze said:

Is the wire sticking?   Sometimes it help's to blow through the transport cable with compressed air..  Often there is dust in there after standing a while

No, the wire feed motor was broken. Would work perfectly, then start stuttering. I had cleaned it up, but still the same.

Fitted the AliExpress one now:

And I guess I can be happy with a weld like this:

[bishbosh]

1 hour ago, elbekko said:

Revisited this while staring at it together with my resident engineer.

Looks like it should indeed be possible to cut out the top plate at an angle from the winch mounting feet to the chassis plate. And then the freespool lever only needs a small notch to be able to sit where it sits now.

Plan coming together

And now, in the name of scope creep, see if I can get the damn welder to behave...

I is an Engineer dontcha know!  

You won't lose very much strength. a 20mm stiffener will add plenty of strength for this application.

[Wytze]

43 minutes ago, elbekko said:

No, the wire feed motor was broken. Would work perfectly, then start stuttering. I had cleaned it up, but still the same.

Fitted the AliExpress one now:

And I guess I can be happy with a weld like this:

Not bad , no😁  Food and mig welder feed motors🥳

[miketomcat]

Just some food for thought this is my free spool on the ibex.

The rod exits through the front of the seat box and is just bent 90° to allow it to be gripped.

Mike

[elbekko]

Dry fit of the winch in the cradle, looking pretty good:

Started tacking up the cradle to the bottom plate, using those washers as a 1.5mm spacer between the plates. Little bit of extra room for the winch + better weld penetration.

Fit it up, took a bit of persuasion, due to this:

Looks like the RH chassis leg is twisted and bent inwards a bit. There's a dent in the rad support crossmember just underneath there, I think that's putva bit of twist in the end of the chassis rail. Not sure what the best way would be of trying to fix that.

[elbekko]

1 hour ago, miketomcat said:

Just some food for thought this is my free spool on the ibex.

The rod exits through the front of the seat box and is just bent 90° to allow it to be gripped.

Mike

That looks like a bit different freespool design from mine though? Butbnice solution.

[dangerous doug]

You can run 2 small ish cables on a pulley one going clockwise and the other anti clockwise and have the same on a remote handle for a push me pull you twisty twist if that helps. Would negate the need for a push/pull bowden cable and could probably do it out of something a bit smaller

[elbekko]

2 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

You can run 2 small ish cables on a pulley one going clockwise and the other anti clockwise and have the same on a remote handle for a push me pull you twisty twist if that helps. Would negate the need for a push/pull bowden cable and could probably do it out of something a bit smaller

Could do. But as said, the point is moot, as it looks like I'll be able to run the freespool lever as it is by cutting out the top plate.

[dangerous doug]

4 hours ago, elbekko said:

Could do. But as said, the point is moot, as it looks like I'll be able to run the freespool lever as it is by cutting out the top plate.

Sorry, I did read that and it diddnt sink in. That’s why I get for replying in the wee hours

[muddy]

how about a cheap 1/4" drive UJ and extension with it poking out of the grill at about 30 degrees? 

[elbekko]

1 hour ago, muddy said:

how about a cheap 1/4" drive UJ and extension with it poking out of the grill at about 30 degrees? 

The thought had crossed my mind (I think it's Trail Mater that has a similar setup). But it would need two with the freespool pointing backwards.

But again, there shouldn't be any need anymore

[Bowie69]

How's progress Filip?

[elbekko]

None so far. Have been busy with other stuff like work and not melting in the heat.

Yesterday's workshop time was spent on fitting the roof tent to the Merc, and didn't feel like getting changed and doing welding afterwards. I'll probably try to spend some more time on this this weekend.

And it'll be without Filip's help, as he's at Graspop the next few days. After many years of going, I've decided it's no longer worth the back pain and huge crowds... but Filip is still crazy enough to go

[elbekko]

Lots of progress made today

After fixing the dent in the chassis, started by fitting the side plates:

Put some washers in so hopefully things still fit after welding.

Then got distracted making some tow hooks. On friday I picked up 1m of 16mm round bar, for the princely sum of €5. Found a wonderfully old-school metal shop not far from home:

Super friendly people, too.

So, got on with trying to make these tow hooks. To fit between the chassis plates, they have to be 8cm wide.

Found some pipe to bend them around, and then muscled it sort of into shape.

This, predictably, did not go very well. Heavy work, everything moving everywhere but where it's supposed to go.

But it turned out ok, after almost two hours of fighting it:

For the second one, I tried being a bit more intelligent.

Stuffed some dead tree carcass into the pipe to prevent it from collapsing. Went well after sharpening the end of the pipe.

The (ab)using the press to push said form tool into the rest of the bar.

Had to make a notched extension piece so the press could reach the bottom of the bar.

Going well:

Muuuch nice, even if I had to finish it off in the vice.

(Left is try 2, right try 1.

Then threw the top plate on:

Started welding things up:.

And then tried to fit one of the front plates. This kicked my butt for a good 3 hours.

But I managed:

Just need to drill a hole in it for the tow point. And then do the other side...

The welder did fine. Although I think a new liner or torch is in order, when there's a bit too much bend in the torch tube, it starts struggling to wire feed.

More on sunday...

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by elbekko

[elbekko]

Almost done now!

Started off with fitting the other front plate. A bit of pondering later, and I decided to tack in some small pieces of plate to act as stops for the bend.

A bit of help from the jack, as master Yoda I am not:

And that worked beautifully. Half an hour of prep, five minutes of fitting. Had to adjust the tabs a bit, as measuring twice is obviously no use when you fail to read a ruler. Nothing the welder and grinder couldn't solve.

The word of the day is "clamps". I brought some more from home today, and was still constantly looking for more clamps.

All tacked up and ready for welding.

Welded the outside of the seams, and threw some heavy stitch welds on from the inside as well.

This is where the welder started to act up again. It just didn't want to get a good weld going there, just sputtering and generally being stupid. I thought maybe impurities had been blown into the back, and was contaminating this weld. Cleaning seemed to not help much. But I managed with perseverance.

And then on to fitting the tow hooks. Bit of lay-out work, drilling out to 15.5mm (biggest drill I could find in the workshop). Then some filing to make it fit, along with some mild persuasion of Mr. Hammer.

Both fitted and welded in.

And then welded from the back as well.

Nicely in line with one of the chassis bolts. That's not going anywhere

Of course the welder wasn't loving life here either, and the other side just refused get a proper weld started again.

I'm wondering now if maybe I have the gas set too high and it's blowing out my puddle in enclosed spaces? On the other hand, I can hear the tone of the wire feed motor change when the torch isn't in the sweet zone, so the torch probably is dead. Seems like it gets worse as it heats up. So probably the liner? Or the whole torch, but it'll need a conversion to euro torch... gets expensive quickly Somehow the adapter seems to cost almost as much as a torch...

Started grinding the welds. Thick disc leaves a very uneven surface, but the flap discs die fairly quickly

To finish off, I tried fitting it on the car. I wanted some motivation.

That failed The twist in the body from previous accident danage is too much, and is stopping the bumper from seating properly.

Rest day tomorrow, more on tuesday...

[Bowie69]

BFH TIME.

[Wytze]

6 hours ago, elbekko said:

Almost done now!

Started off with fitting the other front plate. A bit of pondering later, and I decided to tack in some small pieces of plate to act as stops for the bend.

A bit of help from the jack, as master Yoda I am not:

And that worked beautifully. Half an hour of prep, five minutes of fitting. Had to adjust the tabs a bit, as measuring twice is obviously no use when you fail to read a ruler. Nothing the welder and grinder couldn't solve.

The word of the day is "clamps". I brought some more from home today, and was still constantly looking for more clamps.

All tacked up and ready for welding.

Welded the outside of the seams, and threw some heavy stitch welds on from the inside as well.

This is where the welder started to act up again. It just didn't want to get a good weld going there, just sputtering and generally being stupid. I thought maybe impurities had been blown into the back, and was contaminating this weld. Cleaning seemed to not help much. But I managed with perseverance.

And then on to fitting the tow hooks. Bit of lay-out work, drilling out to 15.5mm (biggest drill I could find in the workshop). Then some filing to make it fit, along with some mild persuasion of Mr. Hammer.

Both fitted and welded in.

And then welded from the back as well.

Nicely in line with one of the chassis bolts. That's not going anywhere

Of course the welder wasn't loving life here either, and the other side just refused get a proper weld started again.

I'm wondering now if maybe I have the gas set too high and it's blowing out my puddle in enclosed spaces? On the other hand, I can hear the tone of the wire feed motor change when the torch isn't in the sweet zone, so the torch probably is dead. Seems like it gets worse as it heats up. So probably the liner? Or the whole torch, but it'll need a conversion to euro torch... gets expensive quickly Somehow the adapter seems to cost almost as much as a torch...

Started grinding the welds. Thick disc leaves a very uneven surface, but the flap discs die fairly quickly

To finish off, I tried fitting it on the car. I wanted some motivation.

That failed The twist in the body from previous accident danage is too much, and is stopping the bumper from seating properly.

Rest day tomorrow, more on tuesday...

It read's like it's the liner of the torch.  And the bumper looks good..  Very sturdy.  The bend bit of the chassis leg, can you give it some relief cut's, pull it straight and weld it again?