Fitting a Hybrid turbo and Mamba actuator kit

[Cornish Rattler]

Hi guys

To help with the high gearing i have 3.54 diffs, Romerdrive and 235/85x16 tyres with a 200tdi fitted i'm fitting a Hybrid turbo with a Mamba actuator and spring kit as i'm only boosting 1 bar and want get it to 1.5 bar to climb hills better ( roof tent fitted ) 

[FridgeFreezer]

Is this a question or a statement?

[Chicken Drumstick]

More appropriate gearing for your intended use might be a better thing to spend on. Ashcroft offer a number of different diff ratios.

Also remember boost pressure is a measure of resistance, not flow. Meaning high boost does not always translate into high Horse Power.

[FridgeFreezer]

2 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Meaning high boost does not always translate into high Horse Power.

Nah, you just wind up the boost & fuel until it smokes like a burning pile of tyres and then tell everyone down the pub you're definitely making at least 200bhp.

[Cornish Rattler]

1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Nah, you just wind up the boost & fuel until it smokes like a burning pile of tyres and then tell everyone down the pub you're definitely making at least 200bhp.

I don't drink 😀😀

[Chicken Drumstick]

BTW - what hybrid turbo specifically are you looking at?

[Cornish Rattler]

15 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

BTW - what hybrid turbo specifically are you looking at?

I've bought it now but its a Garret upgraded billet turbo from Falcon turbo Developments 🙂

[Chicken Drumstick]

28 minutes ago, Cornish Rattler said:

I've bought it now but its a Garret upgraded billet turbo from Falcon turbo Developments 🙂

This one?

https://falconturbos.com/shop/land-rover/discovery/2-5-tdi-td5/land-rover-defender-2-5-tdi-td5-stage-2-hybrid-turbo/

 

What is the rest of your setup? What are you trying to achieve with a different turbo? Unless you are rolling road tuning or some other way to measure performance. More boost may not increase performance. Not saying it won't. But there is more to it than just slapping on an aftermarket turbo. A mate built up his Tdi with a hybrid turbo and lots of aftermarket bits. On a club dyno day his made significantly less power and torque than my stock turbo 200Tdi. Another friend also cranked up the boost on his Tdi, the boost gauge showed this. He recorded the lowest figures of any Tdi at the event.

[Cornish Rattler]

22 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

This one?

https://falconturbos.com/shop/land-rover/discovery/2-5-tdi-td5/land-rover-defender-2-5-tdi-td5-stage-2-hybrid-turbo/

 

What is the rest of your setup? What are you trying to achieve with a different turbo? Unless you are rolling road tuning or some other way to measure performance. More boost may not increase performance. Not saying it won't. But there is more to it than just slapping on an aftermarket turbo. A mate built up his Tdi with a hybrid turbo and lots of aftermarket bits. On a club dyno day his made significantly less power and torque than my stock turbo 200Tdi. Another friend also cranked up the boost on his Tdi, the boost gauge showed this. He recorded the lowest figures of any Tdi at the event.

Ok i will just have to see once its fitted 👍

[Chicken Drumstick]

4 hours ago, Cornish Rattler said:

Ok i will just have to see once its fitted 👍

Please do. Interested to see what you think. Are you doing any dyno runs at all?

Certainly not saying you shouldn't mod. Mine is most certainly not stock!

[Anderzander]

I might be mistaken … but a 200 in a series doesn’t usually struggle on hills.

Are you sure there isn’t an issue with your standard set up? 

[Cornish Rattler]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:47 PM, Chicken Drumstick said:

Please do. Interested to see what you think. Are you doing any dyno runs at all?

Certainly not saying you shouldn't mod. Mine is most certainly not stock!

No dyno's, just want it to come in earlier and last longer as on long Mway hills it runs out of puff about 60 then your back on engine power but on the flat it will touch 80 easy so not expecting it to go fast but to climb hills better at a faster speed 

[Cornish Rattler]

17 hours ago, Anderzander said:

I might be mistaken … but a 200 in a series doesn’t usually struggle on hills.

Are you sure there isn’t an issue with your standard set up? 

Its the gearing as well as big tyres thats doing it, i agree it shouldn't struggle but my tyres are best part of a foot wide, a foot deep and a foot breadth plus 1.5" taller coupled with 3.54 diffs plus o.d 

[Snagger]

17 hours ago, Anderzander said:

I might be mistaken … but a 200 in a series doesn’t usually struggle on hills.

Are you sure there isn’t an issue with your standard set up? 

It will with his gearing - it’s way too tall with overdrive engaged.  
 

Make sure you only use the overdrive in fourth when in high range or you’ll kill the gear box after a while.  With the increased engine performance, I don’t think it’ll take long at all.  You need lower diff ratios, as others have suggested, not more engine performance above standard Tdi.  With what you have, you should carefully consider a low ratio LT77 conversion.  You won’t be able to use an overdrive with the LT77/ Series transfer box combination, but you wouldn’t need to, and the Series transfer box has 1.15:1 ratio, so is taller than the Discovery and RRC LT230, so you will need the low ratio LT77 to compensate for that and the taller tyres unless you fit another diff ration.

[Snagger]

2 minutes ago, Cornish Rattler said:

Its the gearing as well as big tyres thats doing it, i agree it shouldn't struggle but my tyres are best part of a foot wide, a foot deep and a foot breadth plus 1.5" taller coupled with 3.54 diffs plus o.d 

Refit 4.71 diffs and most of your issues will be solved at the drop of a hat, including restored crawling and engine braking in low range.

[Daan]

I'd say 4.1 diff ratios would be ideal. As mentioned the standard 4-speed transmission will have its hands full coping with the torque of a TDI, a bigger turbo will only help to accelerate its demise.

Daan

[Bowie69]

Do you drop out of overdrive on the hills? 

[Anderzander]

Oh - I missed the 3.54 diffs. I tried them in mine and hated them, especially on B roads they seemed to have a real mismatch with the tdi and the lt76. I put P4 4.2’s in and they work well.

[FridgeFreezer]

Have to wonder at what point the 200TDi is just being asked to do too much and a different engine would be an answer?

Tuning stuff very quickly hits diminishing returns compared to just buying an engine that makes the power from the factory, even factoring in conversion costs.

[Bowie69]

That was a pretty subtle nudge in the direction of a V8 fridge, you must be softening in your older age 😛

 

[FridgeFreezer]

18 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

That was a pretty subtle nudge in the direction of a V8 fridge, you must be softening in your older age 😛

V8, OM606, whatever really... trying to wring 200+hp out of a lump that was built for ~115 is an expensive way to do it, you end up with a stressed engine that drinks more and is potentially less driveable than something that's not having to try hard.

Case in point - switching the 127 from carbed 3.5 to fuel injected 4.6 actually saved us fuel, and is incredibly relaxing to drive as it's just not having to try hard.

[Chicken Drumstick]

1 hour ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Have to wonder at what point the 200TDi is just being asked to do too much and a different engine would be an answer?

Don't disagree, although I'm not convinced the op actually falls into this category. A SerIes 88 with a roof tent isn't all that much considering the 200Tdi is perfectly acceptable in a 130 or Discovery in standard output. I assume either they are being unreasonable with expectations, not willing to down shift, have a setup that is over geared and maybe an engine that just doesn't run great. Over the years, I've found Tdi's can be quite variable in how they perform. Some seem much stronger than others.

My 88 with a 200Tdi in pulled my loaded (camping) Sankey trailer fine. The Tdi was stock, no intercooler and I'd never tweaked the pump (unknown if it ever had been, but I don't think it did, it didn't smoke). It drove really well, even on 8.25 x 16 tyres and 3.54:1 diffs. Although my plan was to return it to 4.75:1 diffs and fit an over drive.

 

[Snagger]

53 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said:

V8, OM606, whatever really... trying to wring 200+hp out of a lump that was built for ~115 is an expensive way to do it, you end up with a stressed engine that drinks more and is potentially less driveable than something that's not having to try hard.

Case in point - switching the 127 from carbed 3.5 to fuel injected 4.6 actually saved us fuel, and is incredibly relaxing to drive as it's just not having to try hard.

The bigger problem is asking an LT76, built for 80bhp or so to handle such an engine.  A Tdi can be made to give that performance, though I don’t think it wise, but what is the point in having any engine type that blows your transmission to pieces when a small change to the existing transmission will cure the lack of torque?

[FridgeFreezer]

41 minutes ago, Snagger said:

The bigger problem is asking an LT76, built for 80bhp or so to handle such an engine.  A Tdi can be made to give that performance, though I don’t think it wise, but what is the point in having any engine type that blows your transmission to pieces when a small change to the existing transmission will cure the lack of torque?

True enough - there's the issue of impulse torque with a powerful 4-cyl diesel which I'm convinced is the worst enemy of gearboxes compared to smoother torque from a lump with more cylinders, 200lb/ft delivered in 4 large thwacks of 50 is harder on a box than 8 smaller ones of 25 each.

But OP's whole setup is pushing the bounds of what's reasonable/sensible on those components. Sure you can make anything better/stronger but it gets awful spendy very quickly.

[Snagger]

2 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

True enough - there's the issue of impulse torque with a powerful 4-cyl diesel which I'm convinced is the worst enemy of gearboxes compared to smoother torque from a lump with more cylinders, 200lb/ft delivered in 4 large thwacks of 50 is harder on a box than 8 smaller ones of 25 each.

A real benefit of electric motors.  More torque across the full rpm range, but smooth with no impulses.  You just have to set the ramp-up in the controller to not be too harsh with more delicate transmissions to avoid the shock load from planting your right foot.