Defender 90 Upgraded Axle Build

[Jeff in Stroud]

1998 Defender 90 Station Wagon, 300Tdi

Hello All,

I hope I'm not in breach of forum protocol with this new post. I've checked this part of the forum and can find nothing overlapping. I've read "Hybrid from hell's" axle rebuild post of 4 June 2007 in the archive.

I am building a pair of uprated replacement axles for my Defender 90 from some very used Defender or Disco axles. My "90" has rear disks ("VA" chassis number) as does the replacement rear axle. These replacement axles have been stripped and are about to be de-rusted, cleaned, and painted.

The plan is to build the replacement axles with the following:

·        new diffs from Xcess 4x4 incorporating Ashlockers and other upgrades. I already have these stored warm and snug with plenty of de-watering oil applied. This is like WD-40, but not in a fizz-can.

·        new Ashcroft half shafts, drive flanges and possibly CV joints (see below).

·        new quality bearings (Timken or equivalent).

·        new front swivels.

·        new stub axles. The originals are well passed their best.

Three out of the four hubs are re-usable, but one rear hub had about an inch of radial play with no sign of any bearing rollers or cage. Both races were badly chewed and the hub was also damaged. It must have sounded lovely at the end of its use! Therefore I'll need to buy a new one. I've converted the scrapper into an adapter that enables me to fit brake disks into my lathe chuck.

Using the scrap hub, I've "faced" the disks and blown them over with primer ready for re-use. They had plenty of "meat" on them. New pads, of course.

I’ll re-use the callipers which are currently on the vehicle because they're in better condition.

Subject to a detailed inspection after being de-rusted and cleaned, I expect to be able to re-use the front swivel pin housing/stub axle carrier.

All ball joints on the "90" are good. The rear "A" frame ball joint is only a few thousand miles old.

Now for a few questions if I may?

·        Are Britpart swivels worth fitting? I've seen opposing opinions on this. Paddock Spares has an offer on these at the moment and I'm tempted!

·        As with swivels, any thoughts on Britpart stub axles?

·        Do I need different front stub axles (different bearings size) to accept the Ashcroft CV joints?

·        Will early Defender 23 splice CV joints work with Ashcroft 24/23 spline front haft shafts? This would be an economy measure, but I'd buy genuine land Rover CVs, not aftermarket.

·        Ashcroft suggests omitting the rear axle oil seals to allow the diff oil to get right out to the drive flanges and so lubricate them. It seems like a good idea to me. Any thoughts?

Many thanks!

Jeff.

[Shep The Disco]

Well some parts in blue boxes are ok.

I've used stub axles from them without any issues.

I've fitted decent quality swivel kits and balls as these are quite crucial. 

Stick to contico seals and decent bearings. I use timken

If you are keeping standard ISH size tyres then all will be ok.

Anything over 265/75/ 16 tyres then start increasing strength.

Make sure you use a good quality track rod end etc and discussion with Ashcroft over stub axle sizes is a must

Edited December 29, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[Daan]

1 hour ago, Jeff in Stroud said:

 

·        Are Britpart swivels worth fitting? I've seen opposing opinions on this. Paddock Spares has an offer on these at the moment and I'm tempted!

There has been an inherent problem with these breaking in half, which is a problem obviously. Not sure how they are now. I fitted genuine ones to be sure.

·        As with swivels, any thoughts on Britpart stub axles?

No experience

·        Do I need different front stub axles (different bearings size) to accept the Ashcroft CV joints?

No.

·        Will early Defender 23 splice CV joints work with Ashcroft 24/23 spline front haft shafts? This would be an economy measure, but I'd buy genuine land Rover CVs, not aftermarket.

Yes, you will need the earlier wider hub. This is the best setup IMO. I am running these with a torque biasing diff on 35" tyres with no failures. With the ash locker that goes fully solid, you might start breaking CV's on 35" tyres. If you leave the tyres as they are, I'd say use them. These CV's are on back order from Landrover ~I believe, so not availalble genuine new I think. I have genuine used ones, and they are still ok.

·        Ashcroft suggests omitting the rear axle oil seals to allow the diff oil to get right out to the drive flanges and so lubricate them. It seems like a good idea to me. Any thoughts?

I prefer doing this, and have done in the front axle as well (with oil in the swivels). Bearings last almost forever in oil and your seals last longer. The downside is that if you have an oil seal fail, all the oil will go.

On the flipside, you potentially won't notice a problem with grease, untill the wheel falls off. 

Many thanks!

 

Jeff.

 

Answers in red.

Regards,

 

Daan

[miketomcat]

1 hour ago, Shep The Disco said:

If you are keeping standard ISH size tyres then all will be ok.

Anything over 265/75/ 16 tyres then start increasing strength.

Stock axles are fine up to 33" tyres. You can get away with 35's (especially if the rear is a Salisbury) as long as the tyres are just muds and not simex/trep style. At the end of the day it depends how mechanically sympathetic you are, I know people who have destroyed axles on stock road tyres.

Mike

[Shep The Disco]

2 minutes ago, miketomcat said:

Stock axles are fine up to 33" tyres. You can get away with 35's (especially if the rear is a Salisbury) as long as the tyres are just muds and not simex/trep style. At the end of the day it depends how mechanically sympathetic you are, I know people who have destroyed axles on stock road tyres.

Mike

Yeah good point but I think 33" tyres is pushing it a bit. I have told the lady driver in the house if I catch her turning the wheel without rolling I'm not going to be lighting the fire ...😁

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Shep The Disco

[Bowie69]

An auto box helps too, I've run 33s aggressive tyres on stock 10 splines without issues for thousands of miles. 

When I took the shafts out they did have quite a twist in them though

 

[Snagger]

I prefer to remove or wreck the stub axle internal seals if the half shaft has a splined drive flange, but if the flange is integral to the shaft as late 90s, and all RRCs and Discoverys had at the back (and the RR and Discovery on the front axle up to 1994), then there is not much point as you have no splines to lubricate.  Still, doing so will keep the wheel bearings wet too.

[Bowie69]

Not all RRCs had integral shaft flanges on the rear. 

[Snagger]

Curious.  I thought they all had the domed integrated flanges until the end of the 200, and then the flat integrated flanges at the back on the 300 like mine, using splined flanges on the front axle.  I thought it was only Defenders that had splined rear flanges, and only 110 and 130 at the end.

[Bowie69]

Nope, had two 90-92 RRCs which both had separate thin flanges. 

They are apparently prone to wear the splines due to no oil.... Both mine were and had the thin integrated shafts to replace when needed, amazingly they never actually did break. 

[Shep The Disco]

Seems like a bit of a mix mash as to what you get fitted.

My disco has integrated flanges on the rear only and I've seen them without too.

 

 

[Jeff in Stroud]

Many thanks for all the information, folks. Much appreciated.

I don't intend to be giving my "90" a hard time. No competitions or similar. I'm also very mechanically sympathetic.

The motivation for the axle upgrades up-grades arises from wanting to fit locking diffs instead of open diffs in order to give better traction on the wet sloping ground where my "90" does most of its off road work. Having had new diffs built with Ashlockers, it seems sensible to go for Ashcroft shafts, drive flanges, and probably Ashcroft CV joints, because they'll be compatible and strong. However Land Rover 23 spline CVs might be a cheaper alternative and perfectly good form my needs.

Any thoughts on these LR CVs?

My tyres are 265/70 R16 Insa Turbo Special Tracks. These will be going onto the new axles. They measure 31" from the ground to the top of the tread. Thus bigger than standard, but not massive. The rear drive shafts currently fitted have integral drive flanges. I will need separate drive flanges to work with Ashcroft shafts. I understand that the Ashcroft flanges are a light interference fit on the shafts and so will minimise fretting wear. Hence my thinking to follow Ashcroft's advice, supported by Snagger a few posts up, to omit the oil seals and allow diff oil right out to the flanges for lubrication.

I've read about the Britpart swivels breaking as warned by Daan a few posts up. However I'd also read the more recently reports that quality had improved and people have been using them without problems.

Has anyone had recent and positive experience of these Britpart swivels?

Jeff.

[landroversforever]

As Daan says the AEU2522 early Ninety/Oneten CVs aren’t going to fit without changing the hubs too. 

Did I miss the reasoning for building up different axles vs just upgrading what you’ve got?

[Jeff in Stroud]

Thanks again, folks. I'm working hard to assimilate all of the info being provided.

Apologies, I missed the "Expand" arrow on Dann's post of two days' ago. Having found it. I'm more up to speed. Thanks, Daan, for your comprehensive set of responses.

My reason for building up replacement axles rather than rebuild the existing ones is to minimise downtime. The current axles on my "90" are working perfectly. Both swivels could do with replacing, particularly the right side one which is leaking slightly, but they're serviceable and I can use the vehicle. If I rebuild the existing axles, I'll be without my "90" for some time.

Yes, I could do some intensive work one axle at a time with the axles on the vehicle, but that won't give the result that I want.

My overall plan is to do a good job in a number of areas on the "do it right, do it well, do it once" principal. Thus I can create a custom "90" which will meet my needs till I'm too old and decrepit to use it!

Other items on the list in addition to axles are a hydraulic winch, a hydraulic system to run it and my log splitter, a compressed air system to run the Ashlockers and other things such as timber treatment sprayers, tyre inflation, etc., a roll cage, and some peripherals such as work lights. For the air system, I intend to adapt an air-con compressor to be an air pump.

As far as the axles go, I have the "scrapper" axles, so I can work on them "on the bench" (clean, de-rust, build) and when they're ready, swap them with those currently on the vehicle.

So, summarising to date, I have my shiny new diffs with Ashlockers, courtesy of Xcess4x4 and I have the axles tubes. I plan to buy Ashcroft half-shafts and drive flanges. Suggestions on this thread suggest Ashcroft CV joints are the best way to go, therefore I'll bite the bullet. Otherwise I'd need different hubs to use early 23 spline LR CVs and anyway they're on back order. Again, suggestions on this thread strongly suggest Land Rover swivels, so again, I'll bite the bullet and order some. I'll probably go for Britpart stub axles partly because there isn't significant negative feedback on here, and partly because I'm inclined to the view that compared to swivels, there's less likelihood of the manufacturing going wrong. I'm also inclined to leave out the rear axle seals per Ashcroft advise and comments on here.

I'm intrigued by Daan's suggestion of leaving out the front seals as well. It makes sense to me. I've also thought about oil (EP90, I assume) in the hubs before now. I've never been convinced by the "one shot grease" business, especially as (I think) series LRs used oil. I had assumed that the change to grease with the introduction of the coil-sprung LRs was because of the change to the ball bearing type of CVs from the prop shaft type which were (I think) used on series LRs . Clearly the ball CVs will run on oil, so why not? Any other thoughts on this?

I also plan to drill and tap my swivel pin housing/stub axle carriers to take a drain plug like the earlier ones. If using oil, draining and re-filling will be easier.

Once again, I'm really grateful for all the suggestions and advise. Please keep it coming!

Jeff.

[Jeff in Stroud]

landroversforever, how do I message you? I'm a tech ludite!

[Stellaghost]

4 minutes ago, Jeff in Stroud said:

landroversforever, how do I message you? I'm a tech ludite!

You can private message forum members by pressing the envelope icon at the top of the page, its just in front of your forum sign in name

regards Stephen

[Jeff in Stroud]

Thanks Stephen.

Will try.

Jeff.

[landroversforever]

You might find you can’t yet until you’ve got 30 posts I think?

[Mossberg]

I derusted my replacement axle case using electrolysis in a 200ltr barrel. Worked a treat though it still takes work to get rid of all the cr*p ready for painting. Gets to some areas you wouldn't get a wire brush.