Buying a lathe

[dangerous doug]

Time to ask the adults!
 

The time has come where I can’t really put off buying a lathe anymore. Been looking around a lot the past few weeks and prices are all over the place. I had pretty much decided on either a Colchester or a Harrison but then I stumbled across a deal warco had on their site, I missed out on it but it did get me thinking.

 

it looks like one way or another a decent machine is going to be around the 2-3k mark(ish). I would be much happier spending less but it is what it is
 

If I go with the older machines then it’ll have that nice heavy bed, minimal deflection and be built properly with precision and longevity in mind ….the down side to this is it’s an old lathe. There is a difference in whether it was operated by a man who diddnt care or a man that looked after stuff even if it wasn’t his. Ie, it was good a while ago….but now it’s shot
 

but the smaller warcos are obviously a brand new machine. They have hardened, ground ways, the after support is there(hopefully), parts are plentiful and there is no need for me to get a frequency converter to run a 3 phase motor. 
 

there are obviously trade offs. Smaller machines mean smaller parts and potentially not as fine tolerances. And I would like to have the option of putting a big part in than being limited. But I can’t ignore the updated methods and construction we have that wasn’t as widely used 20-30 years ago when the Colchester’s and Harrison’s were made

 

Looking at something like a 150 swing with 500 centres(ish) gap bed would be nice, metric thread cutting etc etc

 

what are your takes on the Colchester/harrison/warco(import) lathes and is there something else I havnt thought about or missed? or do you know of a better alternative?

 

photos of a few I’ve been looking at

[bishbosh]

I have a Warco mini lathe. It is fine for what it is (tiny - only weighs 60kg or two hernia in old money). That said, I don't think I would be looking at their larger machines. Like you, I looked long and hard at both Colchester and Harrison. Perhaps it is just an unreasonable bias against Warco as they don't have a 100 year history but that should be offset by modern design and manufacturing techniques which in turn is offset by being made down to a price and not up to a quality!

I parked my lathe purchasing ambitions when I bought the 110 but when I next go looking it will almost certainly be an ex toolroom lather from Bidspotter with Colchester or Harrison written on it somewhere.

[Stellaghost]

My lathe is a Harrison 12" gap bed lathe  obviously you're aware of what it can do as pictures of my lathe in action have appeared often enough, think it's a 42" bed, a wee tad longer would be nice.

The chuck fastening system on mine is L00, not easy to find second hand.

It's also single phase which is good

All in all well worth the £400 I paid for it, although I have spent probably the same again on tooling etc

I would personally hang out for an older model, but probably because I'm an older model......

Regards Stephen 

[Stellaghost]

Forgot to add, make sure you get one with plenty of accessories etc because it can be time consuming and expensive when tracking them down. They all pretty much come with a 3 jaw chuck but a 4 jaw is essential if you want greater accuracy, face plate, travelling steadies, tool posts, boring bars, DTI etc can all add significant costs

regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

These are exactly the comments I was hoping to get. The cheap war I was offered again to me as the previous buyer backed out but even if I do spend a little more upfront and buy tooling and accessories slowly as I go I’ll end up with a much better package. 
 

@Stellaghost I would love to know where you found a full size lathe for that money! The cheapest m300 I’ve seen is £1700!

[vulcan bomber]

Warco machines are Sh!t and thats is all you need to know.

 

Colchester and Harrison make good machines, ive always prefered the Harrisons personally. If you can find one from a training school you sould do well.

 

DSG Make the rolls royce of Lathes, if you can find one thats got a proper cam lock nose, not one of there specials i wouldnt hesitate to sdnap it up.

[Anderzander]

1 hour ago, vulcan bomber said:

Warco machines are Sh!t and thats is all you need to know.

😢 

[sean f]

My preference would be to go for a Harrison or Colchester, Harrison M250 or M300 would be my choice but nothing wrong with a Colchester Bantam or Student (later square head version). I have a Colchester Triumph 2000 in the garage but that is probable bigger than you want. Most Harrison or Colchesters will be 3 phase as standard so will need some sort of work to work on single phase, I use a digital converter from DrivesDirect which works well but is not a cheep option, plenty of the smaller lathes have just had the 3 phase motor changed out for a similarly sized single phase motor, I have seen reports 3 phase is preferred on a lathes as it is smoother but it would need some one better than me to explain why and I expect for most normal users it would be unnoticeable.

With Warco I have never had one of there lathes but did have one of there mills, it worked OK and did what I wanted at the time but when I changed it out for a KRV mill the difference is very noticeable.

With any used machine it is going to be a few years old so will need a check, just as when buying a used car some will be perfect, others basically scrap, so same advice as when buying a car if you aren't sure what to check take someone with you who does.

I bought my lathe and milling machine from Bowland Trading in Darwen, I have no connection with them other than buying the two machines, but happy to recommend, both have been been excellent, were exactly as described and service was good, including the owner going in on a Sunday so we could collect them. Again as with a used car buying from a dealer is going to cost a bit more but will give you a bit of buyer protection.

[dangerous doug]

28 minutes ago, sean f said:

My preference would be to go for a Harrison or Colchester, Harrison M250 or M300 would be my choice but nothing wrong with a Colchester Bantam or Student (later square head version). I have a Colchester Triumph 2000 in the garage but that is probable bigger than you want. Most Harrison or Colchesters will be 3 phase as standard so will need some sort of work to work on single phase, I use a digital converter from DrivesDirect which works well but is not a cheep option, plenty of the smaller lathes have just had the 3 phase motor changed out for a similarly sized single phase motor, I have seen reports 3 phase is preferred on a lathes as it is smoother but it would need some one better than me to explain why and I expect for most normal users it would be unnoticeable.

With Warco I have never had one of there lathes but did have one of there mills, it worked OK and did what I wanted at the time but when I changed it out for a KRV mill the difference is very noticeable.

With any used machine it is going to be a few years old so will need a check, just as when buying a used car some will be perfect, others basically scrap, so same advice as when buying a car if you aren't sure what to check take someone with you who does.

I bought my lathe and milling machine from Bowland Trading in Darwen, I have no connection with them other than buying the two machines, but happy to recommend, both have been been excellent, were exactly as described and service was good, including the owner going in on a Sunday so we could collect them. Again as with a used car buying from a dealer is going to cost a bit more but will give you a bit of buyer protection.

Thanks for that, a triumph isn’t too big for the space I have and as I said I would rather have the capacity and not need it than to need it and not have it. 
 

I’ve just messaged a guy about a Harrison m250. Would prefer the 300 as it looks a bit more stout but it’s local. Just waiting to hear back what tooling he’s selling with it, so glad it has received a thumbs up

 

3 hours ago, vulcan bomber said:

Warco machines are Sh!t and thats is all you need to know.

 

 

 

Blunt, harsh and to the point….i like it!😂

 

This is something I’ve suspected. YouTubers go on about their Weiss machines(who make warcos) being amazing and they can do “most things” that a propper lathe can do but something I’ve learned recently about youtube; if you want to know how bad something is, look for upgrade videos. “Weiss lathe upgrade” for example And god there are a lot of them.

 

i had not heard of the dsg lathes but i will keep an eye out, thanks

[vulcan bomber]

I'm in the trade as it were so I find a lot of YouTubers comments laughable.

[muzaz]

I've owned a warco lathe and mill for 7 years and they serve me well. Granted they are not at the same level or even near a Bridgeport or a Colchester and you wouldn't want them if you were a productive machine shop. But for a hobby machinist I believe they are useful. I have faced the cylinder head and machined the transfercase bush on mine with no issues. 

[dangerous doug]

35 minutes ago, muzaz said:

I've owned a warco lathe and mill for 7 years and they serve me well. Granted they are not at the same level or even near a Bridgeport or a Colchester and you wouldn't want them if you were a productive machine shop. But for a hobby machinist I believe they are useful. I have faced the cylinder head and machined the transfercase bush on mine with no issues. 

They for sure have their place but I think after all the standard lathe projects you do to get familiar with it I will be asking too much of them.

 

im hopefully going to look at a Harrison m250 and an m300 a bit later as they’re both local ish for similar money.

 

normal thing though, the 300 would be a nicer machine and I could potentially do more with it but it comes with nothing

 

the 250 comes with a new dro and a few tools etc so I could just fire it up and get going…..but obviously limits to smaller parts

[vulcan bomber]

DROs aren't essential, Indeed the chap that taught me during my apprenticeship didn't use the DRO on his machine at all, and he was probably the best Turner I've ever met. Personally I would go for the bigger machine, the M300s are very good. Its easier to do a small job on a big lathe than it is to do a big job on a small lathe..

[FridgeFreezer]

46 minutes ago, vulcan bomber said:

DROs aren't essential

In my limited amateur experience I'd say DRO's aren't essential on a lathe but absolutely transform a manual mill.

[fmmv]

If you can get one, especially on a small lathe, a gap bed is useful if you might turn larger things. 

[dangerous doug]

Ok well today was odd, ended up checking out the 300 which I diddnt think I would be able to do, also looked at a bantam while I was there but diddnt manage to get over to the 250. 
 

I think this worked out for the best as everything in the m300 worked as it should and looked to be an ex college machine from the motor vehicle department so I doubt it saw much use and the use it did see was fairly light. it also apparently has the hardened ways which is something I was worried about. it doesn’t come with much though, no face plate, 4 jaw or any steadys so I’ll be on the look out

 

Chatted to the guy, he threw in a few tools for me and we agreed on a price. Fingers crossed I pick it up Saturday 

 

thanks for the help everyone. Feel free to point out anything I’ve missed

[dangerous doug]

This was also only £200 more than the deal warco had

[vulcan bomber]

Doesn't look like there's much wrong with that at this distance.

 

Steady rests are machine type specific but there are plenty of M300s about, never used a traveling rest so dont loose any sleep over that. 

 

Double check but I think they are D1-3 cam lock Spindle noses, any accessory intended for such a spindle nose will fit.

 

Also treat yourself to a bed stop.

[vulcan bomber]

6 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

In my limited amateur experience I'd say DRO's aren't essential on a lathe but absolutely transform a manual mill.

They certainly help, there a convenience thing really. On all Manual machines a stop is better than a DRO, you can't wind past them, with a DRO you can.

[dangerous doug]

22 hours ago, vulcan bomber said:

Doesn't look like there's much wrong with that at this distance.

 

Steady rests are machine type specific but there are plenty of M300s about, never used a traveling rest so dont loose any sleep over that. 

 

Double check but I think they are D1-3 cam lock Spindle noses, any accessory intended for such a spindle nose will fit.

 

Also treat yourself to a bed stop.

Only bed stop I’ve seen for it is a multi position thing that attaches to the Carriage. Very fancy looking but I suspect it needs the stop for it to work…which ofcourse isn’t included

 

dro would be nice but isn’t essential and can be added at a later date. 

[fmmv]

That looks very nice indeed. Result. Probably could do with a clean, but hey that's no problem. I would add a quick change toolpost sometime to the shopping list (lathes are like horses or Land Rovers, buying it is just the start, the tip of the iceberg). A QCTP is good as you don't have to keep setting the heights of tools, you can set them up in a holder and then just swap them in, otherwise it can get a bit of a chore. But what a great start. It's worth making a cover out of wood to go over the bed for when you are changing chucks, then if you drop one it won't ding the bed. Or handy if you are doing something dirty (like tacking something held in the chuck) 

[dangerous doug]

1 minute ago, fmmv said:

That looks very nice indeed. Result. Probably could do with a clean, but hey that's no problem. I would add a quick change toolpost sometime to the shopping list (lathes are like horses or Land Rovers, buying it is just the start, the tip of the iceberg). A QCTP is good as you don't have to keep setting the heights of tools, you can set them up in a holder and then just swap them in, otherwise it can get a bit of a chore. But what a great start.

The qctp is on the shopping list but need to get it in place and wired up to see if there’s anything I actually need before such luxuries. Also, what a mine field that is…the plunger types are everywhere but everyone is saying the wedge type is better the seems to be one wedge type on sale and has China stamped all over it which I don’t really want to go for as I just spend a lot of money on a (hopefully) decent lathe and then stick a £100 tool post on top 😂 but it is something I’m looking at

[vulcan bomber]

Multifix or a copy of for tool posts. 👍

[De Ranged]

Spend the money on tooling instead of a QCTP a good Live center to me is worth way more than a QCTP 
You can do a few simple tricks to speed up tool changes.... once you know the shim stacks for your common tools measure them and machine a solid "shim" that goes with that tool, your standard tool post can hold two tools (one either side) eg facing and boring so all you have to do is loosen the tool post rotate and lock that is faster than a QCTP
I tend to leave one side just for the boring bar (it has the grub screws almost all the way out) so I leave that side just for the boring bar 

Don't read this to say I don't like QCTPs lol I use them at work... but at home I'd rather the tooling than something that realisticly is only saving me a few moments 

 

[Stellaghost]

Changing cutting tools is easy once you know your shim set up, I'm with @De Ranged on what he is saying about spending money on tooling, there is always something you need, for instance I did not have tooling for cutting the circlip groove on the recent fairlead build, so 6 years on from getting my lathe I'm still needing tooling for specific tasks

Regards Stephen